Then you should understand why people turned their back on the church. It wasn't Liberal indoctrination. It wasn't the failure of Conservatives. It was the Church alone. Just take a look at what happened in Quebec during the early 60s. They were a low key Catholic theocracy. They controlled the government and they controlled the education of children. They wanted everything. They lost everything.

I was talking specifically about modern, contemporary, allegations, which began, simultaneously, during the liberalisation of the church. The problem is that those allegations earlier than the 19th century are hard to verify since concepts such as due process, or even legal jurisprudence, did not exist. They certainly did occur, but they are also mired with hearsay.

And in fact, this coincides with what happened in Quebec, which also began in the 1960s. If we're talking strictly about Catholicism, the major change was the Second Vatican Council, it stripped the hierarchy, and modified it into what it is today. It became a lot more liberalised. I can't remember all the details now, as it's been a while since I read up on them. A lot of obligations and practices were simplified, and washed down, fasting, for example, was no longer mandatory, and strict observances to traditional customary laws were removed. People's beliefs are reflected upon their actions, and vice versa, thus, a more liberalised church, inevitably, results in more liberal attitudes.

It was just an observation. This deus vult larping is common nowadays and you fill every criteria of it. Your false representation of the church is harmful and will turn even more people away from Christ.

It's all joke. If you're talking about the post I made about Israel, well, it's in jest. It was a light-hearted reference to the crusades. But at the same time, it is true that doctrinally Catholicism does not support Zionism. No Pope has ever supported it. The official position of the Catholic Church is to pray for the conversion of the Jews, this never changed, every Easter (in all the Catholic churches) there is a prayer for the conversion of the Jews. Thus, if you find that offensive, well, that's the official stance. It is hypocritical for me to say I support Israel, which is Zionism, while my faith says otherwise.

In fact, I was pro-Israel up until I seriously studied my own faith, and understood that Zionism is contrary to my faith.

I attack the failures of the church, but not to destroy them. I rather see that these failures is what led to the downfall. Attacking these failures, fixing these failures will strengthen the church.

I completely agree in that. I am very critical of my own church, so don't get it twisted. I am especially angry at the corrupt clergy who have violated their religious obligations, and primarily their duty to care for the flock, and their vows of chastity. I am a layperson, of course I am not perfect, but the clergy has to be held to a higher standard.

A Conservative with a sense of humor and someone that knows that Christ himself would point out these failures.

Lol. I think we're on the same page, except I just don't attack the churches like that. The church (regardless of your sect) needs good people to support it, and to stop the haemorrhage of the faith.

Then you should understand why people turned their back on the church. It wasn't Liberal indoctrination. It wasn't the failure of Conservatives. It was the Church alone. Just take a look at what happened in Quebec during the early 60s. They were a low key Catholic theocracy. They controlled the government and they controlled the education of children. They wanted everything. They lost everything.

I was talking specifically about modern, contemporary, allegations, which began, simultaneously, during the liberalisation of the church. The problem is that those allegations earlier than the 19th century are hard to verify since concepts such as due process, or even legal jurisprudence, did not exist. They certainly did occur, but they are also mired with hearsay.

And in fact, this coincides with what happened in Quebec, which also began in the 1960s. If we're talking strictly about Catholicism, the major change was the Second Vatican Council, it stripped the hierarchy, and modified it into what it is today. It became a lot more liberalised. I can't remember all the details now, as it's been a while since I read up on them. A lot of obligations and practices were simplified, and washed down, fasting, for example, was no longer mandatory, and strict observances to traditional customary laws were removed. People's beliefs are reflected upon their actions, and vice versa, thus, a more liberalised church, inevitably, results in more liberal attitudes.

It was just an observation. This deus vult larping is common nowadays and you fill every criteria of it. Your false representation of the church is harmful and will turn even more people away from Christ.

It's all joke. If you're talking about the post I made about Israel, well, it's in jest. It was a light-hearted reference to the crusades. But at the same time, it is true that doctrinally Catholicism does not support Zionism. No Pope has ever supported it. The official position of the Catholic Church is to pray for the conversion of the Jews, this never changed, every Easter there is a prayer for their conversion. Thus, if you find that offensive, well, that's the official stance.

In fact, I was pro-Israel up until I seriously studied my own faith, and understood that Zionism is contrary to my faith.

I attack the failures of the church, but not to destroy them. I rather see that these failures is what led to the downfall. Attacking these failures, fixing these failures will strengthen the church.

I completely agree in that. I am very critical of my own church, so don't get it twisted. I am especially angry at the corrupt clergy who have violated their religious obligations, and primarily their duty to care for the flock, and their vows of chastity. I am a layperson, of course I am not perfect, but the clergy has to be held to a higher standard.

A Conservative with a sense of humor and someone that knows that Christ himself would point out these failures.

Lol. I think we're on the same page, except I just don't attack the churches like that. The church (regardless of your sect) needs good people to support it, and to stop the haemorrhage of the faith.