This is the main argument that pro-CPC folks have been telling me to vote for CPC instead of PPC. They say Max made the mistake of starting his own party. They argue that if he waited it out he could have been the leader of the CPC this time around. Is Trump running as a Republican a good comparison to this?
Comments (82)
sorted by:
Trump was right. Take over the party and show them how to win.
you can't do that in Canada unfortunately. we don't vote for a leader, we vote for a party. Max would have been the leader of the party if only it wasn't controlled by globalists. We cant vote for the leader of the CPC so no Trump 2.0 Max would never be allowed to lead the CPC.
This is how Bernie(r) still can win.
Oh, and Max wouldn't have won against Trudeau in my opinion. He might have gotten better results in Quebec, but would have suppressed Con voters anywhere else. His anti supply management stance isn't really popular here in the Prairies. And his thick French accent is just a no go.
Supply management was enacted in 1972 here in Canada. It's running now for 48 years without causing a holodomor.
Go and ask a farmer if they want to get rid of supply management. 99% of them will tell you to fuck off. They know that if supply management goes away, then they will have to compete with cheap imports from the US. And the only way the can compete with these cheap imports form the US is if they sell below cost. And then we are going to run the same scam as the US, which is handing out billions and billions every year to farmers so that they produce food below cost.
You can kill supply management and keep steep tariffs on US imports though.
And then we're at square one. Kill supply management to lower grocery prices, increase tariffs so that cheap imports are kept out, grocery prices as high as before.
Not necessarily, as we'll have domestic competition which will keep prices lower. That approach seems to be working fine with wheat.
I know someone that works in poultry and it's a shitshow. Sometimes they can't get enough chickens to keep up demand with the products they make like nuggets. Limiting the amount of chickens a farmer can raise and sell is ridiculous.
No, they don't. You really want to argue that the 10 cent we pay more for milk "make up the largest part of a Canadian family's food budget"?
And I want cheaper cars. Better outsource everything to Mexico.
How do you want to do that? Everyone who shops cheap imported goods at Walmart has to prove that they are poor?
This is Bernier's greatest weakness IMO: His inability to pick his battles. Most Canadians don't even know what supply management is, much less give a fuck about it as an election issue. Like where does "supply management" rank on important election issues according to Canadian voters? Nowhere. That's where.
But Max chooses supply management as his hill to die on because he's an ideological zombie. His formula is:
So he chooses supply management - an issue nobody gives a fuck about - as his hill to die on, and then gets all asshurt when he loses.
Even better, he got in a massive twitter feud with people over his outrage that high schools were going to give girls free tampons, and then made the headlines for it. "Why is Maxime Bernier so obsessed with tampons?". Yeah, great fucking headline. How about you never talk about teenage girls' tampons again for as long as you live, Max. Let's try that as a PR strategy going forward FFS.
So like I said, he just doesn't know how to pick his battles. It's his biggest flaw. I mean that's fine if you just want to be a novelty, fringe independent backbencher, but not if you want to win elections and lead the country by consensus.
"But you have to stand up for what you believe in!" his zealots will say. Not if you want people to vote for you you don't. That's a child's understanding of how to navigate politics. If you actually want to accomplish anything beyond being the subject of mocking healdines, you need to have some self-awareness and understand what you sound like to other people - the people you're trying to persuade. Screeching about girls' tampons, right as you may be from a philosophical or economic standpoint, is an idiotic move. Full stop. A competent leader and politician knows how to not do stupid shit like that. Even if your "ideology" commands you to take those hard-line positions.
As much as ideological zealots don't want to hear it, the only way you can win elections is by compromising, by moderating your positions to keep up with the will of the electorate, by negotiating with swing voters for their support. It's like this by design. That's how democracy is supposed to work. That's why real parties have leadership elections: So the party can change its stance on issues to keep up with the times. That's how the major parties remain major parties: By constantly moderating to keep up with the will of the electorate. If you want to be an uncompromising, hardline fringe that never changes and keeps the same leader as a lifetime ruler, then get used to living in the political wilderness.
Disagree because supply management was the root of the corruption in both parties. It's fucking crony socialism and exposes small towns to being hollowed out by globalization because people can't start their own businesses that supply the region. He was absolutely right, but that's never enough.
You win elections by leading. This "compromise," thing is for cucks and bottoms.
Even Trudeau had a following. Solving the problem of how do we get the liberals out of office and how do we make Max PM are not the same problem right now. He's still young'ish, and the real Trump play would be to ratchet up his popular support over a decade or more. What conservatives need in Canada is culture, not politics. Alberta has culture, the prairies have culture, you just don't hear about it because the CBC is being run by Soros. The media is just a zombie corpse animated by liberal money and senile boomers.
Look at what the left did to the millennials from a young age only 15-20 years ago. It indoctrinated them and now they are the diversity police that keep the liberals in power. The future is making kids understand that they were sold out by communists, and all they have to look forward to is a life of slavery under shithole regimes if they don't build new networks to isolate these fucks.
Is that why Bernier won 1.6% of the popular vote? LOL
Dude, we saw who your guy lost to. This isn't your fight.
Exactly. That move has no other purpose than to try and generate donations.
Yeah, and being hard-line is for winners like the PPC.
ROFL
And uh, where did your "values" get you in the last election? Who's the real "loser" here? The party that won the popular vote? Or the one that got 1.6% of the vote and zero seats? You're in no position to be caling anyone a "loser" here.
This is the proper analogy: https://i.imgur.com/zfzOmIR.png
And the PPC will keeping bringing in the same loser LOL
Your 420 farmers don't count.
I don't think it would have worked in our case.
With Derek Sloan and Leslyn Lewis both getting nearly no substantial votes, it shows pretty darn clear that the "Conservatives" are that only in name.
Not to mention O’Toole literally is signing us away to the UN again, classic move once you get elected.
Lewis was ahead after the second ballot based on number of votes. The stupid riding level weighting did her in. People will vote for her, but the CPC doesn't want to offend the 8 members of the riding association in Lac du Buttfuck Nord, Quebec.
Oh I trust that Leslyn Lewis did pretty well.
Sloan and Lewis together to me represented a lot of ideas in Conservatism that is sorely needed in the Party.
The both of them losing is a prime example of the "Conservatives" literally only being that in name.
United Nations treaties here we come!! :D
Nah, the CPC wouldn't have backstabbed Scheer like that if Bernier was lurking. The party brass had no intention of letting him influence the party's direction and they were certainly reticent of making waves, much as they are under O'Toole.
Max was right to start his own party, his major mistake was growing it too fast and bringing e-celebs into high profile positions.
Frank Vaughan for example, feuded with the party supporters on twitter, spent a lot of time enhancing his own celebrity, and has done an incomprehensible amount of damage to the party after he was blown out in the election.
Then there was the one who was trying to promote her singing career, the ones who got exposed for making seriously racist comments right before the election, the ones who were selling their own party merchandise, the ones who were super pro-life, and the ones who couldn't stop talking about their diversity like that gay Metis veteran.
When you looked at the candidates, you'd think that Bernier had jetted around the country establishing an EDA and certifying candidates in every riding over a period of six months or something. Which is just what he did.
Then there was the issue of his staff, his social media has been fucked. Whomever is running his twitter account got into a public fight with Jessica Yaniv of all people right before the election. That was embarrassing and his twitter has gotten worse, the other day whomever runs it was tweeting about all of the mentally ill people driving their cars while wearing a mask.
That's the kind of thing that makes supporting the PPC hard.
He can still rebuild but I don't think he had any chance of becoming CPC leader. They'd rigged a leadership convention against him, dropped him from the cabinet and the election shows that they had a strong contender lined up for his riding. They were in the process of getting rid of him when he split off.
It's a poor comparison to compare Bernier to Trump anyhow because Bernier wasn't running for president, he was running as the leader of the House. If America had our system then Trump would have been running against Ryan, not Bush and he wouldn't have had a chance in hell.
Trump is something that can be done in America, not Canada. Bernier was right to take the path he chose, the problem was the strategy.
Rocky Dong wasn't bad at first but he didn't stop making those fucking videos.
Renata Ford though? She's a well-known lunatic who most people assume has a serious drug problem.
The recruiting of immigrants and muslims as candidates was a major problem as well. Just because the party was accused of racism didn't mean they needed to play that game; it was a massive turnoff.
I couldn't even vote for my PPC candidate either, there was no way that guy deserved to be in the House. It was a nightmare.
I'll be honest. I was a hardcore Mad Max dickrider and I didn't think Max taking away Conservative votes mattered. I figured if the CPC gets a minority win by pandering to the left and stealing votes away from the Liberals, the PPC's existence is a good way to check the CPC and make sure they don't swing any more left. It wasn't until someone made the Trump comparison then I started to understand the other side of the argument.
Uh, yeah. And I'm a massive Bernier Bro.
I think Trump had a much better chance because there were actually republican politicians who were nationalistic and willing to support him. Are there any similar people in the CPC? Maybe a handful at best. Anyone with any clout is a hardcore globalist. Max simply would've been stymied at every turn.
Yes. Bernier is a fool for trying to build PPC from the ground up. It's attracted nothing but loons, and edgelords. The PPC vote where I live in NS was about 270 people, the Liberal candidate only beat the CPC candidate by under 200 votes. Now maybe thats 270 PPC voters who never would have voted, and didn't vote before. I can't help but wonder though.
He wound't have to dismantle it from the inside. He would almost certainly be party leader right now if he hadn't thrown a hissyfit over milk and quit the CPC. And once he becomes party leader, his platform automatically becomes the party's platform. No "dismantling" required.
But yes, Max has zero chance as the leader of a fringe party he created for himself. And he knows that. He did that merely out of spite, knowing that he could hurt the CPC's chances of winning the next election if he split the vote and forced the CPC to fight in two directions at once rather than just having to fight the Liberals.
See, it wasn't just the actual votes he stole from the CPC, he forced the CPC to try and pander harder to the right in order to not hemorrhage right-wing voters now that they had an alternative. Sheer having to do that hurt him with the centrist swing voters too.
This whole PPC thing was all just a scheme to make the CPC lose in 2019 and give Trudeau another four years, out of pure sour grapes on Bernier's part because he lost the leadership election.
I really don't understand your point of view.
If Derek Sloan can't sway the "Conservatives" what makes you think that Bernier would have had any pull in this leadership race...
It was always designed to be either MacKay or O’Toole, that was clear for the entire length of the campaign.
It wasn't out of spite and designed to cause the "Conservatives" to lose. It's literally because the party itself is over. It doesn't conserve anything, they allow the Left to trample all over our values.
Really? You don't see any difference between Sloan (an outsider nobody's ever heard of, has no experience in government and no standing in the party), and Maxime Bernier, who's held one of the highest cabinet minister jobs (foreign affairs) among other and nearly won the last leadership election, collecting the most first pick votes? Are you serious? You know there's more to candidate electability than just their polices, right? Holy fuck.
Bernier's popularity only tanked with Conservatives when he quit the CPC and went to war with them.
Stop. Either show me some proof of this big conspiracy, or spare me the tinforil hat crap. If we were talking before the election, you'd be saying it was rigged for MacKay, since he's the party establishment's favorite. You're only saying "MacKay or O’Toole" now because MacKay lost.
Hahaha! Imagine actually believing this. You are in a cult. You need to face reality. Stop sending cheques to this charlatan and stop recruiting new victims for him.
I'm just wondering how long you're gonna sit in the aisle of the "Conservatives" while everyone is focused on leaving the aisle for real Conservatism.
If you're not standing up for your country's personal growth and against anything the United Nations has in store for humanity, then you aren't on the right side of the people.
Maxime Bernier, is THE only politician speaking on behalf of the utter Satanic Communistic approach of the United Nations.
LOL by "everyone" you mean all seven people who are voting PPC? LOL.
If I want to hand Trudeau another term I'll just vote Liberal.
Thanks for writing a rebuttal, I've been arguing with Ham for years about how stupid his perspective of Maxime Bernier causing this split vote scenario out of spite...
No.
The "Conservative" party isn't conserving any of our values, I'm shocked some of them even spoke up when the Macdonald statue went down.
Even then it was met with resistance, no doubt from the Left in this country, and they backed down as far as I know.
He says some dumb shit about me recruiting people... Funny thing is I don't even have to do work, the "Conservatives" are hemorrhaging supporters almost on a daily because of the BS they spout out.
Insult people all you want, the PPC will never be anything more than an aid to the LPC by splitting the Conservative vote.
I see your points but there's just one thing I don't understand. No one swinging close to the centre or leaning left is voting for Max before CPC. CPC did fine in the West, it was Ontario and Quebec that costed them the election. I don't understand where Max did damage and split the voters. Ontario is kind of a lost cause because of Toronto. Fence-sitters would go for CPC or NDP first if they didn't wanna vote for Liberals. So where exactly is Max stealing the votes from? Quebec?
Max is a loser. So he still would have messed it up.
He's like Trudeau as he originally got his riding through nepotism: it was his daddy's riding. He didn't earn it. But the conservatives thought he had it in the bag.
He's also self destructive. Doesn't get his way, and he throws temper tantrums. Like he lost the conservative leadership, so he forms his party out of spite. He's admitted to this. Then in his own riding, which his daddy gave to him, that is full of milk farmers, goes against the federal and provincial milk boards. Whether you agree with that policy or not, it's quite obvious it was not in the interest of his riding. Which he knew. And they tossed his spoiled ass out.
So it's an awful comparison as Trump didn't get the political position from his dad. And tested running by running for the libertarian party prior to the Republican entry.
Your friends are missing the main arguments that Max is a basic bitch