1 I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone--
2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.
3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men--the testimony given in its proper time.
7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.
8 I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing.
9 I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes,
10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.
11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
15 But women will be saved through childbearing--if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
I thought it was slaughtering people who didn't think like you that you were upset about, I didn't realize it's OK if it's just between Christian sects.
I see what you did there. I said "murdering people for their beliefs" when I should have specified "religious beliefs", and you tried to turn it to civilian crimes. The discussion was about Christians murdering other Christians during the various Inquisitions and how you seem to think that was better than Muslims murdering Christians. I disagree.
"Christians" didn't do that. NAZI soldiers did that...
First, Christians have been putting Jews in ghettos and murdering them for hundreds of years. Look up "pogrom". Second, Germany in 1939 was overwhelmingly Christian, and so were the Nazi soldiers. Kristallnacht soldiers were joined by thousands of civilians. The Times of London, 11 November 1938: "No foreign propagandist bent upon blackening Germany before the world could outdo the tale of burnings and beatings, of blackguardly assaults on defenceless and innocent people, which disgraced that country yesterday." It wasn't just Nazis. Most of the 3 million Nazi Party members "still paid the Church taxes" and considered themselves Christians. (John S. Conway; The Nazi Persecution of the Churches, 1933-1945; Regent College Publishing; p. 233)
Even in the face of evidence of Nazi atrocities against Catholic priests and lay people in Poland, which were broadcast on Vatican Radio, German Catholic religious leaders continued to express their support for the Nazi war effort. They urged their Catholic followers to "fulfill their duty to the Fuhrer" (John S. Conway; The Nazi Persecution of the Churches, 1933-1945; Regent College Publishing; p. 234)
The expulsion of minorities is as old as war. The Jews are just one group of many who have been kicked around. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer) The thing that is different about them is that they got blamed for the death of Jesus even though it was the Romans who killed him, and everywhere they go there are Christians who hate them for that despite the fact that Jesus had to "die for our sins" and return from the dead in order for the Christian story to work.
The one thing OLDE Christians and Muslims agree on is that LOANS AT INTEREST are wrong, evil and destructive.
As you say: Christians do it too. Are you just as mad at them?
Yes but their are false christs, false Christians, false prophets etc. There are many warnings of this in the Bible.
A verse for you "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven"
Mathew 7:21
And it goes on further. I would argue that "Christians" who spread the gospel by the sword, murder people who don't join their church, and create traditions that aren't the will of the Father fit into the category of false Christians.
What does this have to do with calling out false doctrine. I can bust out a lot of verses about speaking out against it. Its not out of judgment, it's to tell people to come out of it.
Well, the thing is that some people judge all of Islam based on the actions of its most extreme members, but at the same time they can not see that they have the same kind of extremism on their own side. the Ku Kux Klan, The Order, Anders Behring Breivik, the Westboro Baptist Church - the list of white christian haters and murderers is long, And then there are the thousands of civilians killed by drone strikes in Yemen, Afghanistan, Somalia, Lybia, Pakistan... that can't be ignored.
Both sides play the game, but some people can't see that. They think their side is blameless and anyway if there are any extremists amongst us there's only a few and it's because they were provoked.
And then of course there's Luke 6:37 and Matthew 7:1, about Christians being careful about judging others, and beams and motes in eyes.
"That which is stated without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" In other words, just saying something doesn't make it a fact.
50-90% of people in muslim majority countries believe terrorism is acceptable to spread islam.
What is your source for that information?
More people have been murdered by muslims this year then the entire history of the KKK for example
What is your source for that information?
Breivik didn't do what he did because of religion
"On the day of the attacks, Breivik e-mailed a compendium of texts entitled 2083: A European Declaration of Independence, describing his militant ideology. In them, he stated his opposition to Islam and blamed feminism for a European "cultural suicide." The text called for the deportation of all Muslims from Europe" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik#cite_ref-Jones20110727_23-0)
Westboro hasn't killed anyone, neither had the order.
True. They're just haters, like the Muslim Imams who make firey speeches but don't do anything.
Drone strikes by a government aren't religious either
I agree that the US is not a Christian nation, but I was discussing this with someone who does think that.
You probably just missed the part where I said "Probably not"
as White influence subsided these places reverted
What places? I don't want to search a whole bunch of African history if you can point me to the parts you mean.
The African slaves Whites owned were already slaves and they and their descendants would have likely remained such
Some perhaps. Of the ones that went to the US and Caribbean most were captured only because the whites created a market for them. They wouldn't have been taken in the first place without that market.
Christianity replaced a lot of this
As far as I know when Christians gained power they largely failed to accept the people who were already there into their churches or businesses. I'm not aware of any original peoples in the upper levels of the churches, or the boards of the Hudson's Bay Company or the Dutch East India Company. Perhaps you know of some?
You can try to educate Brown people about rights but that doesn't mean they'll give a *uck
Hmm. This shoe seems to fit. "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group"
But you're a Christian, right? So you can't be one of those, can you?
Christians have a 1500 year history of slaughter of non-believers. A few examples:
Spanish Inquisition 1478 - 1834
Medieval Inquisition 12th & 13th centuries
Roman Inquisition Late 1500s
Portuguese Inquisition 1536 - 1821
Not to mention the oppression of women.
Just sayin'.
1 Timothy 2:11-12
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
What version are you reading. I don't see that.
1 Timothy 2
1 I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone--
2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.
3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men--the testimony given in its proper time.
7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.
8 I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing.
9 I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes,
10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.
11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
15 But women will be saved through childbearing--if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
You said an awful lot there but I don't see any of it in Timothy. Where are you getting that argument from?
That's a strange clip to use to support your claim that Islam oppresses women. Jack Nicholson seems pretty disrespectful in it.
I thought it was slaughtering people who didn't think like you that you were upset about, I didn't realize it's OK if it's just between Christian sects.
Or is that not what you're saying?
The idea that murdering people for their beliefs is less of an issue in some cases is new to me.
Christians herding Jewwish shopkeepers, women, and children.into ghettos and then murdering them?
I see what you did there. I said "murdering people for their beliefs" when I should have specified "religious beliefs", and you tried to turn it to civilian crimes. The discussion was about Christians murdering other Christians during the various Inquisitions and how you seem to think that was better than Muslims murdering Christians. I disagree.
First, Christians have been putting Jews in ghettos and murdering them for hundreds of years. Look up "pogrom". Second, Germany in 1939 was overwhelmingly Christian, and so were the Nazi soldiers. Kristallnacht soldiers were joined by thousands of civilians. The Times of London, 11 November 1938: "No foreign propagandist bent upon blackening Germany before the world could outdo the tale of burnings and beatings, of blackguardly assaults on defenceless and innocent people, which disgraced that country yesterday." It wasn't just Nazis. Most of the 3 million Nazi Party members "still paid the Church taxes" and considered themselves Christians. (John S. Conway; The Nazi Persecution of the Churches, 1933-1945; Regent College Publishing; p. 233)
Even in the face of evidence of Nazi atrocities against Catholic priests and lay people in Poland, which were broadcast on Vatican Radio, German Catholic religious leaders continued to express their support for the Nazi war effort. They urged their Catholic followers to "fulfill their duty to the Fuhrer" (John S. Conway; The Nazi Persecution of the Churches, 1933-1945; Regent College Publishing; p. 234)
The expulsion of minorities is as old as war. The Jews are just one group of many who have been kicked around. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer) The thing that is different about them is that they got blamed for the death of Jesus even though it was the Romans who killed him, and everywhere they go there are Christians who hate them for that despite the fact that Jesus had to "die for our sins" and return from the dead in order for the Christian story to work.
As you say: Christians do it too. Are you just as mad at them?
Not all people who call themselves christian are christian.
Who gets to decide that some christians are not christian?
The Bible.
They all have a Bible in their hand.
I can hold a German flag in my hand, doesn't mean I'm German.
Anyone who claims Jesus is divine is a christian. A lot of them don't act like it.
Yes but their are false christs, false Christians, false prophets etc. There are many warnings of this in the Bible.
A verse for you "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven" Mathew 7:21
And it goes on further. I would argue that "Christians" who spread the gospel by the sword, murder people who don't join their church, and create traditions that aren't the will of the Father fit into the category of false Christians.
It's nice to run into a Christian who is content to let other people live their lives their own way, one who follows the New Testament teachings:
Luke 6:37
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven
Matthew 7
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
What does this have to do with calling out false doctrine. I can bust out a lot of verses about speaking out against it. Its not out of judgment, it's to tell people to come out of it.
Catholics aren't Christians?
Buddy was going back 1400 years but I'm only allowed 50?
Well, the thing is that some people judge all of Islam based on the actions of its most extreme members, but at the same time they can not see that they have the same kind of extremism on their own side. the Ku Kux Klan, The Order, Anders Behring Breivik, the Westboro Baptist Church - the list of white christian haters and murderers is long, And then there are the thousands of civilians killed by drone strikes in Yemen, Afghanistan, Somalia, Lybia, Pakistan... that can't be ignored.
Both sides play the game, but some people can't see that. They think their side is blameless and anyway if there are any extremists amongst us there's only a few and it's because they were provoked.
And then of course there's Luke 6:37 and Matthew 7:1, about Christians being careful about judging others, and beams and motes in eyes.
"That which is stated without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" In other words, just saying something doesn't make it a fact.
What is your source for that information?
What is your source for that information?
"On the day of the attacks, Breivik e-mailed a compendium of texts entitled 2083: A European Declaration of Independence, describing his militant ideology. In them, he stated his opposition to Islam and blamed feminism for a European "cultural suicide." The text called for the deportation of all Muslims from Europe" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik#cite_ref-Jones20110727_23-0)
True. They're just haters, like the Muslim Imams who make firey speeches but don't do anything.
I agree that the US is not a Christian nation, but I was discussing this with someone who does think that.
Are you saying that White Christians never subjugated anyone? Probably not, so tell me a bit about the people that they freed, please.
You probably just missed the part where I said "Probably not"
What places? I don't want to search a whole bunch of African history if you can point me to the parts you mean.
Some perhaps. Of the ones that went to the US and Caribbean most were captured only because the whites created a market for them. They wouldn't have been taken in the first place without that market.
As far as I know when Christians gained power they largely failed to accept the people who were already there into their churches or businesses. I'm not aware of any original peoples in the upper levels of the churches, or the boards of the Hudson's Bay Company or the Dutch East India Company. Perhaps you know of some?
Hmm. This shoe seems to fit. "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group"
But you're a Christian, right? So you can't be one of those, can you?
A basketball Canadian is in charge of the greens?? who would ever let Shaniqua be in charge of the environment...