Are you comfortable with people dying unnecessarily when the vaccine could have made their covid manageable? Misguided people are dying in droves, much more than the possibility of harm from the vax.
Since you refuse to acknowledge my questions, I'll answer with this.
19 children in Canada have died WITH Covid, it appears they all had serious co-morbidities.
2,000 people under 60 have died WITH Covid in Canada so far in total.
The average age of death WITH Covid is virtually same as life expectancy, WHICH MEANS COVID DID NOT DROP THE AVERAGE LIFE EXPECTANCY.
The narrative that people are dying "in droves" is a statistical falsehood (to be polite).
Cowards are so afraid of dying now that they'd salt the earth for future generations for the possibility of a few extra breaths.
"but the medical system is overrun" - why do we have 1/4 - 1/2 of the ICU beds in comparison to the other G7 countries?
"trust the science" -the science says people with natural immunity are more protected than the vaccinated, why are they being forced to take the vaccine?
We know the vaccines cause heart damage in some people, especially children. Any ethical person knows a child's life is worth vastly more than an elderly persons life.
The UK vaccine advisory board (Scientist) recently advised AGAINST vaccinating healthy children out of concern for the rare side effect.
I know you won't digest any of this information, challenge it, or address it because you're too afraid of the possibility that you're wrong. Instead you'll say something about not being qualified to analyze data, or use some other logical fallacy to sidestep these direct points.
Without references to back up anything you say there's not much point in paying attention to you, is there? I believe Hitchen's Razor goes something like this:
"That which is stated without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
Pretty busy these days, so I have to cut back on engaging over Internet opinions. If you've got some links to documents that support your claims I'd be happy to read them.
Ah the “anonymous so can’t be trusted” fallback position. You must find it baffling why whistleblowers are permitted to be anonymous, with claims taken seriously.
I thought you said you were paying attention so I assumed, you were aware of these commonly known facts. What were you saying about Hichen again?
Here we see no risk in children from Covid, and risk from vaccine. We see people with natural immunity have a strong response. Now why are we forcing the vaccine on these groups?
19 children died WITH covid, 2,000 people under 60 died WITH covid so far, and average age of death WITH covid virtually same as life expectancy.
WHO indicates vaccine reduce spread by only 40%, not sure why people who’ve been vaccinated would be immune from testing, or the logic in vaccine passports given the ineffectiveness in preventing ongoing transmission.
In Canada our NACI recommends a 10 microgram dose in 5-11 cohort and 30 microgram dose in 12-18 cohort. So a 120lb 11 year old would get 1/3 of the dose of a 80lb 12 year old. TrUsT tHe sCiEnCe.
We see people with natural immunity have a strong response
Definitely. The catch is that you have to survive covid to gain natural immunity, so that eliminates 1 of every 50 people who test positive for it, because they die. And what's stronger than natural immunity? Getting vaccinated after surviving covid. It's all here: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1
19 children died WITH covid, 2,000 people under 60 died WITH covid so far
It's hard to tell, but I think you might be using data from Figure 7 of the Canadian Government web page you linked to (https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html). It seems you're only concerned with whether people die or not, and ignoring other factors such as the load imposed by covid patients on hospitals when the virus gets loose - especially on the ICUs - and the services that are deinied people for "regular" care because the covid patients are tying up the beds.
UK vaccine advisory board Scientists not backing Covid jabs for healthy 12 to 15-year-olds
Your link is to a news story from Sept 3 about the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI). As of Nov 15 the JCVI is pointing out that "the population level impact of vaccinating this age group has not been considered in the development of this advice." So they did not factor in the spread of the virus by young people.
They also say "The available data indicates that the clinical manifestations of myocarditis following vaccination are typically self-limiting and resolve within a short time."
And furthermore "First doses of COVID-19 vaccine are currently being offered to children and young people aged 12 to 15 years."
Canada has 1.95 acute care hospital beds per 1,000 people, fewer than any other OECD country but Mexico.
I think we're in agreement that more money could be spent on our healthcare systems. That said, your link is to an opinion piece from March 19, 2020 which also says "Overall, it is not a bad system. Despite Canada’s strained health care resources, we have decent health care outcomes. Canadians born today can expect to live 82.3 years, 3.4 years longer than their American counterparts. According to key indicators of health care quality, such as five-year cancer survival rates or the percentage of patients surviving strokes, Canada ranks in the top half of OECD countries."
That's a 38 page report - what part(s) are you referring to? If it's "Table 2. Events Reported in ≥2% Cases" I'll point out that 2% is small to begin with and that of that 2% - when you read the table - most of them do not qualify as "serious": sore arm, fever, nausea, etc, plus a lot more. Only 1223 of the events reported were fatal - out of 42,086 events. It's too bad they don't say how many vaccinations total, but we can multiply by 50 (because it's 2% of the vacinations) and assume it must have been around 2,104,300. That might be about right, because on Feb 28, 2020 - the date given in the document - there had been about 268,000,000 vaccinations world wide. See the "Covid-19 vaccine doses administered" graph at https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=OWID_WRL
So we've got over 2 million vaccinations, 42,086 people reporting a wide range of adverse events, a lot of them minor, 19,582 recovered/recovering, 1223 fatalities, and the rest still sick or unknown. And don't forget that those were early days, and they were vaccinating old people first, many with comorbidities. Take 2 million old people, some of them sick, and watch them for a month - some are going to die anyway, vaccination or no.
That's 1223 fatalities out of over 2 million vaccinations (0.06%), compared to 2 fatalities out of every hundred people (2%) that test positive for the virus. Even if you assume that all the unknown outcomes were fatalities the percentage only goes up to 0.5%.
So natural immunity is good but you have to risk dying to get it. And you'll note that your quote is saying it's not 100% either. “The immunity provided by vaccine and prior infection are both high but not complete (i.e., not 100%).”
Your link also says "Substantial immunologic evidence and a growing body of epidemiologic evidence indicate that vaccination after infection significantly enhances protection and further reduces risk of reinfection, which lays the foundation for CDC recommendations."
So your own link says that while natural immunity is good - assuming you survive the virus - it is even better if you still get vaccinated.
Limiting the load on the healthcare system is a desirable outcome. Reducing transmission lowers the load, so as many "regular" hospital patients can be seen as possible.
not sure why people who’ve been vaccinated would be immune from testing,
Got a link for that? There's nothing in your article about it.
or the logic in vaccine passports given the ineffectiveness in preventing ongoing transmission.
From link you provided dated Nov 24 2021: "We cannot say this clearly enough: even if you are vaccinated, continue to take precautions to prevent becoming infected yourself, and infecting someone else who could die." and "Europe recorded more than 2.4 million new cases last week -- an 11-percent rise on the week before. Infections were up 31 percent in Germany."
Proving you're vaccinated before being allowed to enter some venues makes sense when there's a global pandemic on.
You appear to be claiming the dosage should be adjusted for the weight of the child rather than the age. Can you provide any evidence to support that opinion?
Are you comfortable with people dying unnecessarily when the vaccine could have made their covid manageable? Misguided people are dying in droves, much more than the possibility of harm from the vax.
Since you refuse to acknowledge my questions, I'll answer with this.
19 children in Canada have died WITH Covid, it appears they all had serious co-morbidities.
2,000 people under 60 have died WITH Covid in Canada so far in total.
The average age of death WITH Covid is virtually same as life expectancy, WHICH MEANS COVID DID NOT DROP THE AVERAGE LIFE EXPECTANCY.
The narrative that people are dying "in droves" is a statistical falsehood (to be polite).
Cowards are so afraid of dying now that they'd salt the earth for future generations for the possibility of a few extra breaths.
"but the medical system is overrun" - why do we have 1/4 - 1/2 of the ICU beds in comparison to the other G7 countries?
"trust the science" -the science says people with natural immunity are more protected than the vaccinated, why are they being forced to take the vaccine?
We know the vaccines cause heart damage in some people, especially children. Any ethical person knows a child's life is worth vastly more than an elderly persons life.
The UK vaccine advisory board (Scientist) recently advised AGAINST vaccinating healthy children out of concern for the rare side effect.
I know you won't digest any of this information, challenge it, or address it because you're too afraid of the possibility that you're wrong. Instead you'll say something about not being qualified to analyze data, or use some other logical fallacy to sidestep these direct points.
Without references to back up anything you say there's not much point in paying attention to you, is there? I believe Hitchen's Razor goes something like this:
"That which is stated without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
I’ll wait for you to answer my questions before I answer yours this time.
Pretty busy these days, so I have to cut back on engaging over Internet opinions. If you've got some links to documents that support your claims I'd be happy to read them.
Ah the “anonymous so can’t be trusted” fallback position. You must find it baffling why whistleblowers are permitted to be anonymous, with claims taken seriously.
I thought you said you were paying attention so I assumed, you were aware of these commonly known facts. What were you saying about Hichen again?
Here we see no risk in children from Covid, and risk from vaccine. We see people with natural immunity have a strong response. Now why are we forcing the vaccine on these groups?
19 children died WITH covid, 2,000 people under 60 died WITH covid so far, and average age of death WITH covid virtually same as life expectancy.
https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html UK vaccine advisory board Scientists not backing Covid jabs for healthy 12 to 15-year-olds due to myocarditis risk, and lack of covid risk.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/health-58438669.amp
Canada has 1.95 acute care hospital beds per 1,000 people, fewer than any other OECD country but Mexico.
https://policyoptions.irpp.org/magazines/march-2020/coronavirus-is-about-to-reveal-how-fragile-our-health-system-is/
Pfizers own data released by order of court in US showing thousands of serious tens of thousands of “serious” AE’s including over 1,200 deaths.
https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/5.3.6-postmarketing-experience.pdf CDC indicating strong natural immunity- “The immunity provided by vaccine and prior infection are both high but not complete (i.e., not 100%).” https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/vaccine-induced-immunity.html
Mechanism behind clotting in AZ
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/canada/adenovirus-in-astrazeneca-vaccine-behind-trigger-for-extremely-rare-blood-clots-scientists/wcm/b1d1e0df-8989-41b0-a029-875585bfb5ec/amp/
WHO indicates vaccine reduce spread by only 40%, not sure why people who’ve been vaccinated would be immune from testing, or the logic in vaccine passports given the ineffectiveness in preventing ongoing transmission.
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20211124-vaccines-reduce-covid-transmission-by-40-who
In Canada our NACI recommends a 10 microgram dose in 5-11 cohort and 30 microgram dose in 12-18 cohort. So a 120lb 11 year old would get 1/3 of the dose of a 80lb 12 year old. TrUsT tHe sCiEnCe.
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/immunization/national-advisory-committee-on-immunization-naci/recommendations-use-covid-19-vaccines/pfizer-biontech-10-mcg-children-5-11-years-age.html
You made a lot of points in that post. I'm going to break up my replies.
Maybe. You might want to elaborate on that statement. It's not universally true, apparently:
"No results found for "whistleblowers are permitted to be anonymous"." https://www.google.com/search?q=%22whistleblowers+are+permitted+to+be+anonymous%22
Where do we see that? Perhaps you could provide a quote and a link when you make such a statement.
Definitely. The catch is that you have to survive covid to gain natural immunity, so that eliminates 1 of every 50 people who test positive for it, because they die. And what's stronger than natural immunity? Getting vaccinated after surviving covid. It's all here: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1
Because they get sick and die, and they pass the virus on to the vulnerable. https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19/why-its-important-vaccinate-children-against-covid
It's hard to tell, but I think you might be using data from Figure 7 of the Canadian Government web page you linked to (https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html). It seems you're only concerned with whether people die or not, and ignoring other factors such as the load imposed by covid patients on hospitals when the virus gets loose - especially on the ICUs - and the services that are deinied people for "regular" care because the covid patients are tying up the beds.
Another unsupported statement. In fact in a study of 37 countries years of life lost in 2020 were higher than expected in 31, and associated with the covid-19 pandemic. https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj-2021-066768 In the US life expectancy was reduced by 1.13 years. https://www.pnas.org/content/118/5/e2014746118
Your link is to a news story from Sept 3 about the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI). As of Nov 15 the JCVI is pointing out that "the population level impact of vaccinating this age group has not been considered in the development of this advice." So they did not factor in the spread of the virus by young people.
They also say "The available data indicates that the clinical manifestations of myocarditis following vaccination are typically self-limiting and resolve within a short time."
And furthermore "First doses of COVID-19 vaccine are currently being offered to children and young people aged 12 to 15 years."
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccination-in-children-and-young-people-aged-16-to-17-years-jcvi-statement-november-2021/joint-committee-on-vaccination-and-immunisation-jcvi-advice-on-covid-19-vaccination-in-people-aged-16-to-17-years-15-november-2021
I think we're in agreement that more money could be spent on our healthcare systems. That said, your link is to an opinion piece from March 19, 2020 which also says "Overall, it is not a bad system. Despite Canada’s strained health care resources, we have decent health care outcomes. Canadians born today can expect to live 82.3 years, 3.4 years longer than their American counterparts. According to key indicators of health care quality, such as five-year cancer survival rates or the percentage of patients surviving strokes, Canada ranks in the top half of OECD countries."
Despite her pronouncement in March 2020 that new ICU beds require new buildings, it turned out that temporary ICU beds could be cobbled together although staffing them was a problem. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-icus-adding-beds-but-will-it-help-1.5985771 My local hospital doubled its ICU capacity when called upon.
That's a 38 page report - what part(s) are you referring to? If it's "Table 2. Events Reported in ≥2% Cases" I'll point out that 2% is small to begin with and that of that 2% - when you read the table - most of them do not qualify as "serious": sore arm, fever, nausea, etc, plus a lot more. Only 1223 of the events reported were fatal - out of 42,086 events. It's too bad they don't say how many vaccinations total, but we can multiply by 50 (because it's 2% of the vacinations) and assume it must have been around 2,104,300. That might be about right, because on Feb 28, 2020 - the date given in the document - there had been about 268,000,000 vaccinations world wide. See the "Covid-19 vaccine doses administered" graph at https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=OWID_WRL
So we've got over 2 million vaccinations, 42,086 people reporting a wide range of adverse events, a lot of them minor, 19,582 recovered/recovering, 1223 fatalities, and the rest still sick or unknown. And don't forget that those were early days, and they were vaccinating old people first, many with comorbidities. Take 2 million old people, some of them sick, and watch them for a month - some are going to die anyway, vaccination or no.
That's 1223 fatalities out of over 2 million vaccinations (0.06%), compared to 2 fatalities out of every hundred people (2%) that test positive for the virus. Even if you assume that all the unknown outcomes were fatalities the percentage only goes up to 0.5%.
Natural immunity is acquired by getting infected and surviving. (https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-natural-immunity-what-you-need-to-know) Of the people who test positive for covid 2% of them die. (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/canada/)
So natural immunity is good but you have to risk dying to get it. And you'll note that your quote is saying it's not 100% either. “The immunity provided by vaccine and prior infection are both high but not complete (i.e., not 100%).”
Your link also says "Substantial immunologic evidence and a growing body of epidemiologic evidence indicate that vaccination after infection significantly enhances protection and further reduces risk of reinfection, which lays the foundation for CDC recommendations."
So your own link says that while natural immunity is good - assuming you survive the virus - it is even better if you still get vaccinated.
Limiting the load on the healthcare system is a desirable outcome. Reducing transmission lowers the load, so as many "regular" hospital patients can be seen as possible.
Got a link for that? There's nothing in your article about it.
From link you provided dated Nov 24 2021: "We cannot say this clearly enough: even if you are vaccinated, continue to take precautions to prevent becoming infected yourself, and infecting someone else who could die." and "Europe recorded more than 2.4 million new cases last week -- an 11-percent rise on the week before. Infections were up 31 percent in Germany."
Proving you're vaccinated before being allowed to enter some venues makes sense when there's a global pandemic on.
You appear to be claiming the dosage should be adjusted for the weight of the child rather than the age. Can you provide any evidence to support that opinion?