Trudeau BTFO by German MEP
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They made an apple pie and motherhood statement before the event under discussion took place. It would carry more weight if they were commenting afterwards. They were never asked the limits of protest.
"Dore, an ex-supporter of Bernie Sanders and the Green Party", "Dore’s interview with the fascist was fawning and entirely uncritical" https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/01/29/dore-j29.html
You were presenting individuals. If you want to talk in generalities then don't forget that "all politics is local", and the poll I referenced indicated two thirds of Canadians supported him on this. From that perspective he's laughing.
What he said was "Conservative party members can stand with people who wave swastikas". It is commentators who extrapolated that to nazis.
Definitely hysterical. Claiming peaceful protests are illegal after weeks of peaceful protests uninterrupted by authorities is pretty advanced self-deception.
I guess the definition of 'peaceful' varies from person to pundit to observer to commentator. A lot of former Commonwealth countries including Canada use the phrase "peace, order, and good government" in their foundational documents, so in the end they actually have pretty broad authority to decide what's peaceful.
You clearly said you couldn't read the article linked.
It ultimately doesn't matter what the NYTimes thinks. I was providing leftist sources to show that crushing a dissenting protest and setting a precedent of seizing bank accounts for future governments will be a huge problem. The tremendous majority of protests in Canada are not by right-wingers.
You continue to attack the people. That's fine with me.
You're absolutely right. Politics are local. The consequences for banning peaceful protest in Canada will be very local until it isn't anymore.
I outright say that Trudeau clearly said Melissa Lantsman is a nazi. She was clearly upset being called a nazi.
I expect Zelensky was upset being called a nazi by Putin. Technically Putin never said zelensky was a nazi. In fact, they officially said he's nobody and the nazis shadow operate Ukraine. So in fact, Putin never said Zelensky was a nazi.
Why do you think so many Canadians are nazis and why do we need to 'denazify' so many canadians? Dont worry, it's still coming. Canada will absolutely be denazifying.
You're the one with the inconsistent world view. You attack and dismissed all my leftist sources. What you are experiencing is called cognitive dissonance.
Now you don't understand what peaceful means? I dont believe the Charter, UN declaration of human rights, nor international convent of civil rights actually defines peaceful.
There is thousands of hours of footage of the protest from countless angles. The protest is defacto peaceful. There is absolutely no question that it was peaceful. Trudeau never even attempted to claim that violence was occurring. In fact, if violence had been occurring, the ottawa police would have easily been able to shutdown the protest. The ottawa police were under a ton of pressure to shutdown the peaceful protest. They never did anything because they couldn't do anything to the peaceful protest.
Your cognitive dissonance is quite strong. You need to redefine the word peaceful to justify crushing the protest.
This is all now just history book stuff. Canada had a watershed moment. We lost our right to peaceful protest. Then again how many other charter rights are violated right now by Trudeau. Not exactly the only one.
I expect it will be right about november or december when this goes down. Next january at the absolute latest.
Many plausible scenarios could prevent this. If the right wing sees some of the lawsuits for charter right violations pay out bigtime and judges reestablishing the right to protest... I could see that as the beginning of healing.
You provided a quote, remember?
OK. Stop quoting them then.
People you brought forward.
Peaceful protests aren't banned. Anyone at Queens Park since mid-February can attest to this. Your constant denial is beginning to be problematic - does your position dissolve if you acknowledge reality? You are certainly pushing hard to deny that peaceful protests have occurred since the Emergencies Act was lifted.
You will have to come up with video or a quote.
She was jupset. Yes. She was not called a nazi and you cannot supply proof that she was.
Your 'calm and rational' facade is slipping.
I was just pointing out that most were so far left that 'regular' leftists are pretty far to the right of them, and that mainstream Canadians supported Trudeau on the brief implementation of the Emergencies Act.
And in the absence of that Canada's foundational documents give the government the last word on what 'peaceful' means.
Except for the parts that weren't, and that was what necessitated a response. Without the freezing of downtown Ottawa and the blockage of International trade the protest would presumably have carried on longer.
I guess my position - that the founding documents enable the federal government to determine what they consider 'peaceful' and act accordingly - is too subtle for you? I don't believe I offered a definition.
Except, of course, that there have been and continue to be peaceful protests since the Emergencies Act was lifted, but they interfere with your narrative so you don't acknowledge them.
?? When what goes down?
You haven't offered much here at all have you.
I applaud you for coming to the snake den of people you clearly disagree with. Ask yourself what's your goal here? Are you looking to understand why we hate blackface wearers? Are you looking to convert us to your side?
Probably in history you did provide some position of your own and were dunked on. If I predicted correctly, you likely have been unintentionally trained to not give much to avoid being dunked on again.
If I might make a recommendation. Something I've said a few times now, our opinion doesn't matter. Ultimately we get a single vote in our riding that will probably go uncounted.
The better approach is to just talk to each other like we are both good curious people who want to learn why others think the way they do. The world is complex and even if you spent all your waking hours studying 1 thing, you might be an expert above everyone else but you will still not know everything.
Instead of being a political warrior at the behest of some blackface tyrannical politician. Why not just ask questions? You genuinely believe the protest was a bunch of white nazis. Here's a really good article with a fantastic thumbnail: https://quillette.com/2022/02/21/the-ottawa-trucker-protest-was-disruptive-the-hysterical-reaction-to-it-was-worse/
Like I said, it doesn't have to go down. All Trudeau needs to do is return our rights. The media need to stop the attacks. Reparations need to be awarded to those whose rights were trampled.
You read my position. It's clear the canadian media was compromised by Putin. Russia was planning to invade Ukraine and used this resource to cause an illegitimate upheaval against a legitimate protest. It brought everyone's attention to Canada and not their imminent invasion. I would even go further, the Canadian media even published that Biden was a warmonger, that russia wasnt about to invade, that it was the USA who is always starting wars trying to incite another war. They didn't just attack the protest.
Trudeau was grossly misinformed about the protest. A fellow Quebec Liberal MP(literally trudeau's top ally) made a huge mistake: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuASydTUatI he made the mistake of going to the protest and he was disillusioned. He came out long before any emergency act and said exactly what needs to happen. He himself said the protest wasn't a bunch of white supremacists.
Nobody is expecting Trudeau to do any of this. That boat has sailed. He probably now knows how much he screwed up and that's why he's touring europe to talk about the importance of democracy. Yet this hypocrisy is why he's being denounced.
I know why I'm here - no problem.
Only to you, I think.
In case anyone has lost the thread: Ottawa's core was frozen, its downtown residents deprived of sleep and access to necessary services, and International trade throttled. The Federal government got things going again, and two thirds of Canadians approved of its actions.