What percentage of people who get covid do you think actually die from it?
How many people have had the virus? No one knows, so any percentage is a guess. But over 6 million people have died of it. How many will it take for you to GAF?
I was visiting my sister in the hospital and one of the nurses told me about an unvaxxed guy with covid who spent three weeks in the ICU on a ventilator, and when he recovered he went home and told his friends on Facebook that he "beat the virus without getting vaccinated". It's a personal anecdote and doesn't count, but you remind me of that guy.
As for the people who die of other things but have covid: they are recorded for contact tracing purposes, not as cause of death. From your own link: "The I-Team found eight cases in which a person was counted as a COVID death, but did not have COVID listed as a cause of contributing cause of death."
Exactly, but you are drawing the wrong conclusions.
The fact that there are more undiagnosed cases of covid means that the lethality is actually lower. Dead people tend to be autopsied and their cause of death determined. The ones who beat it on their own are not counted. As I stated, I am one of the uncounted because I developed symptoms and diagnosed with a rapid antigen home test. There was no requirement to report. Millions of others did the same especially after omicron came and it overwhelmed government centers. If you included those numbers in the total, the percentage of death from covid is even less than 1.1 percent.
Even if 6 million died of covid you are in fact confusing high infection rate with high lethality. In fact it has a very low fatality rate. The only reason there are so many dead is because so many got infected at the same time. In most cases the disease simply accelerated death from preexisting conditions. It is sad to lose some life expectancy, but it is not a reason to force the healthy and relatively young to play guinea pigs with a vaccine or lose their livelihoods and freedom. In Canada there were editorials and opinion polls advocating for the imprisonment of the unvaxxed until the freedom convoy knocked some sense into politicians. The reality is that even the common cold kills people. If you infect enough people with a relatively benign virus like chicken pox or the cold you will still have mass casualties. People have freaked out over covid because the risk has been hyped and they also confuse vaccination with prevention of disease and transmission, which these vaccines do not accomplish (though they initially lied and said they were 94 percent effective at preventing infection).
You are yourself relying on anecdotes. I know nothing about the man your sister told you about and what preexisting conditions he had. I know that if health care professionals were not so obsessed about vaccines and instead recommended weight reduction, benign and proven immune boosting supplements like vitamin d,c,zinc the death toll would be much lower. The health profession is guilty of many unnecessary deaths by failing to give common sense advice and focusing on the vaccines. I won't even go into the unfair libeling of ivermectin which many studies have found to be effective and remains a recommended drug by the World Health Organization for the treatment of the closely related form of Sars-1.
You are pointing to the fact that their review turned up some wrongly classified deaths and I assume you mean that the number is trivial. It is hard to say. That is only one probe. There is an ocean of statistics and cases to sift through and no one ever will.
I do have a problem with a system that classified anyone who dies within 6 months of covid as a covid death. This has been a universal standard in the UK and in Canada. It's curious - and telling - that no such statistical approach is used to gauge the mortality and side effects of the vaccine. We have seen, for example, dramatic drops in birthrates throughout the western world following the rollout of vaccines, yet no association is made. We have also seen an increase in SADS and yet explanations like climate change, marijuana, etc are rolled out - all except the elephant in the room.
No one is stopping anyone from taking the vaccine but it is criminally negligent and barbaric to strip people of everything they have worked for, their careers, their freedom to travel, their freedom to associate with others, their freedom to enjoy life, just because they choose to take the small risk that this disease actually entails. I could see the argument if failing to vaccinate put others at risk, but it does not. And don't even use the you are overloading the health system argument. Because if you go there then they should be barring lifestyle diabetics,fatties, druggies and others from the health system but in fact they take up a disproportionate percentage of all health care resources. The city where I live is out millions of dollars in ambulance fees just from collecting junkies and drunks and bringing them to the emergency room which is overloaded with them. Yet you never see editorials suggesting we ban these self inflicted patients from the health care system. I on the other hand had to read editorials in the National Post and others recommending I lose the right to medicare, which I would still have to pay for, or have to pay a special tax to access health care.
Others called for my imprisonment and complete banishment from society.
If you have ever wondered how the Holocaust happened, you saw the beginnings of it here - how a government run propaganda effort managed to brand a significant segment of law abiding citizens as filthy maggots worthy of death.
I am sorry you have bought into the lies they have fed you. I encourage you to do more research and I think you will see I am not wrong. Although it won't save you from whatever damage the vaxxines have already caused you, it might save you from further damage as they start pushing more and more booster shots - since, by the way, no one has studied the cumulative effect of these things beyond two doses. But if the experience in highly vaxxed Israel is any indication it is not good - the vaccines seem to lower natural immunity leading to an ever increasing dependence on more shots to keep the covid at bay.
You asked about percentages and I said they were unknowable. We agree there's no way of knowing what the percentage of deaths in the infected actually is.
"you are in fact confusing high infection rate with high lethality."
What makes you think that? All I said was the count is 6 million dead.
"You are yourself relying on anecdotes" I'm sorry I didn't make myself clearer. Buddy seemed not to have any idea of the difference between injections that costs about $20 and a three week stay in an an ICU. Each help people beat covid.
though they initially lied and said they were 94 percent effective at preventing infection
"They" were reporting what the trials showed. It wasn't a lie. The virus has mutated and the game has changed. Not sure why you and others here are so invested in certain statements from the past, as though anyone was claiming they were still relevant.
The only support you supplied for your claim that non-covid deaths were misclassified did not, in fact, support that claim. What else do you have?
As for the much of the rest...
system that classified anyone who dies within 6 months of covid as a covid death
This has been a universal standard in the UK and in Canada.
dramatic drops in birthrates throughout the western world following the rollout of vaccines
increase in SADS
explanations like climate change, marijuana, etc are rolled out
criminally negligent
the lies they have fed you
etc.
You are welcome to your opinions but to me they look like misinformation. I'm sure you can find lots of other people who share them and publish them. As far as I can see a vast and convincing majority of the people who actually have relevant training and experience do not share them.
It's sad that you are unaware of what I am talking about. Remember that the mainstream media is censored. Social media shuts down all dissenting voices even when they are right. This is the very reason that this site and all other .win sites exist. The fact that they marginalize information and label it "misinformation" doesnt mean it isnt true. As Galileo is reputed to have said when he was forced to recant that the earth revolved around the sun, he said "And yet it moves."
They were not reporting what the trials showed. None of the trials actually confirmed 94 percent prevention of infection. In fact more people died in the group that got the vaccine than the unvaxxed group. Moreover they discounted symptoms of covid in the vaxxed group by labeling it a cold or flu without doing testing, how convenient. If you don't believe me look up the battle between Pfizer and various groups to block the raw data of their studies for over 90 years. That in itself should worry you. What they have been forced to disclose is even more worrisome and there are many who have analyzed it. You will not find it in the MSM because most news outlets are bought and paid for. They get advertising dollars from the drug companies and in Canada the legacy media has gotten huge subsidies from the Trudeau government. They know which side their bread is buttered.
If you don't believe me that deaths within 6 months of covid are classified as covid deaths, feel free to look it up. They freely admit it.
And as for you anecdote, okay he was an idiot. But so what. There are lots of idiots on the other side of the argument. I have seen parents with their kid in ICU or dead and buried due to covid complications still shilling for the vaccine saying that their tragedy should not deter you from getting the safe and effective jab.
And also don't fall for the propaganda campaign. Look at it critically. For a while, until they moved on the Ukraine war, the propagandists were churning out "repentance videos" where supposedly dying covid patients repented of not getting the vaxx and urged everyone not to repeat their mistake. Yet they were strangely well groomed and able to speak quite clearly despite supposedly drowning in their own phlegm. I have been in hospital and trust me my first thought is not to go on facebook. Nor would a cameraman be allowed into a covid ward to film this shit. It's mostly bullshit.
If you ever get a chance read a book called Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds. It's available for free on Gutenberg.org. It's an old book, written in the 1800s, but it documents all of the mass psychoses that have afflicted society from religious manias, medical manias and superstitions to financial bubbles like the tulip craze. It's old but when you see the pattern you cannot mistake what happened to us as a society. Because as someone once said, history does not repeat but it rhymes.
I thought you said "I am not going to endlessly debate you" a while ago.
You've made your opinions clear but your support for them has been feeble so far. Of the few links you have provided:
One does not say what you claim it does (the Epoch Times piece that misrepresents the findings of a journal article. Remember? Of the nine people who died of myocarditis or pericarditis eight were from the unvaccinated control group),
Another is a pre-print that has yet to be peer reviewed.
Another is supposed to show a particular vaccine isn't safe but when you follow its links the vaccine is still recommended over nothing at all.
Another deals with one patient who had a liver reaction to a vaccine but hastens to say "To our knowledge, no severe case with liver failure requiring liver transplantation was reported."
If you do in fact choose to endlessly debate please give us more than opinions.
How many people have had the virus? No one knows, so any percentage is a guess. But over 6 million people have died of it. How many will it take for you to GAF?
I was visiting my sister in the hospital and one of the nurses told me about an unvaxxed guy with covid who spent three weeks in the ICU on a ventilator, and when he recovered he went home and told his friends on Facebook that he "beat the virus without getting vaccinated". It's a personal anecdote and doesn't count, but you remind me of that guy.
As for the people who die of other things but have covid: they are recorded for contact tracing purposes, not as cause of death. From your own link: "The I-Team found eight cases in which a person was counted as a COVID death, but did not have COVID listed as a cause of contributing cause of death."
Exactly, but you are drawing the wrong conclusions.
The fact that there are more undiagnosed cases of covid means that the lethality is actually lower. Dead people tend to be autopsied and their cause of death determined. The ones who beat it on their own are not counted. As I stated, I am one of the uncounted because I developed symptoms and diagnosed with a rapid antigen home test. There was no requirement to report. Millions of others did the same especially after omicron came and it overwhelmed government centers. If you included those numbers in the total, the percentage of death from covid is even less than 1.1 percent.
Even if 6 million died of covid you are in fact confusing high infection rate with high lethality. In fact it has a very low fatality rate. The only reason there are so many dead is because so many got infected at the same time. In most cases the disease simply accelerated death from preexisting conditions. It is sad to lose some life expectancy, but it is not a reason to force the healthy and relatively young to play guinea pigs with a vaccine or lose their livelihoods and freedom. In Canada there were editorials and opinion polls advocating for the imprisonment of the unvaxxed until the freedom convoy knocked some sense into politicians. The reality is that even the common cold kills people. If you infect enough people with a relatively benign virus like chicken pox or the cold you will still have mass casualties. People have freaked out over covid because the risk has been hyped and they also confuse vaccination with prevention of disease and transmission, which these vaccines do not accomplish (though they initially lied and said they were 94 percent effective at preventing infection).
You are yourself relying on anecdotes. I know nothing about the man your sister told you about and what preexisting conditions he had. I know that if health care professionals were not so obsessed about vaccines and instead recommended weight reduction, benign and proven immune boosting supplements like vitamin d,c,zinc the death toll would be much lower. The health profession is guilty of many unnecessary deaths by failing to give common sense advice and focusing on the vaccines. I won't even go into the unfair libeling of ivermectin which many studies have found to be effective and remains a recommended drug by the World Health Organization for the treatment of the closely related form of Sars-1.
You are pointing to the fact that their review turned up some wrongly classified deaths and I assume you mean that the number is trivial. It is hard to say. That is only one probe. There is an ocean of statistics and cases to sift through and no one ever will.
I do have a problem with a system that classified anyone who dies within 6 months of covid as a covid death. This has been a universal standard in the UK and in Canada. It's curious - and telling - that no such statistical approach is used to gauge the mortality and side effects of the vaccine. We have seen, for example, dramatic drops in birthrates throughout the western world following the rollout of vaccines, yet no association is made. We have also seen an increase in SADS and yet explanations like climate change, marijuana, etc are rolled out - all except the elephant in the room.
No one is stopping anyone from taking the vaccine but it is criminally negligent and barbaric to strip people of everything they have worked for, their careers, their freedom to travel, their freedom to associate with others, their freedom to enjoy life, just because they choose to take the small risk that this disease actually entails. I could see the argument if failing to vaccinate put others at risk, but it does not. And don't even use the you are overloading the health system argument. Because if you go there then they should be barring lifestyle diabetics,fatties, druggies and others from the health system but in fact they take up a disproportionate percentage of all health care resources. The city where I live is out millions of dollars in ambulance fees just from collecting junkies and drunks and bringing them to the emergency room which is overloaded with them. Yet you never see editorials suggesting we ban these self inflicted patients from the health care system. I on the other hand had to read editorials in the National Post and others recommending I lose the right to medicare, which I would still have to pay for, or have to pay a special tax to access health care.
Others called for my imprisonment and complete banishment from society.
If you have ever wondered how the Holocaust happened, you saw the beginnings of it here - how a government run propaganda effort managed to brand a significant segment of law abiding citizens as filthy maggots worthy of death.
I am sorry you have bought into the lies they have fed you. I encourage you to do more research and I think you will see I am not wrong. Although it won't save you from whatever damage the vaxxines have already caused you, it might save you from further damage as they start pushing more and more booster shots - since, by the way, no one has studied the cumulative effect of these things beyond two doses. But if the experience in highly vaxxed Israel is any indication it is not good - the vaccines seem to lower natural immunity leading to an ever increasing dependence on more shots to keep the covid at bay.
You asked about percentages and I said they were unknowable. We agree there's no way of knowing what the percentage of deaths in the infected actually is.
"you are in fact confusing high infection rate with high lethality."
What makes you think that? All I said was the count is 6 million dead.
"They" were reporting what the trials showed. It wasn't a lie. The virus has mutated and the game has changed. Not sure why you and others here are so invested in certain statements from the past, as though anyone was claiming they were still relevant.
As for the much of the rest...
etc.
You are welcome to your opinions but to me they look like misinformation. I'm sure you can find lots of other people who share them and publish them. As far as I can see a vast and convincing majority of the people who actually have relevant training and experience do not share them.
It's sad that you are unaware of what I am talking about. Remember that the mainstream media is censored. Social media shuts down all dissenting voices even when they are right. This is the very reason that this site and all other .win sites exist. The fact that they marginalize information and label it "misinformation" doesnt mean it isnt true. As Galileo is reputed to have said when he was forced to recant that the earth revolved around the sun, he said "And yet it moves."
They were not reporting what the trials showed. None of the trials actually confirmed 94 percent prevention of infection. In fact more people died in the group that got the vaccine than the unvaxxed group. Moreover they discounted symptoms of covid in the vaxxed group by labeling it a cold or flu without doing testing, how convenient. If you don't believe me look up the battle between Pfizer and various groups to block the raw data of their studies for over 90 years. That in itself should worry you. What they have been forced to disclose is even more worrisome and there are many who have analyzed it. You will not find it in the MSM because most news outlets are bought and paid for. They get advertising dollars from the drug companies and in Canada the legacy media has gotten huge subsidies from the Trudeau government. They know which side their bread is buttered.
If you don't believe me that deaths within 6 months of covid are classified as covid deaths, feel free to look it up. They freely admit it.
And as for you anecdote, okay he was an idiot. But so what. There are lots of idiots on the other side of the argument. I have seen parents with their kid in ICU or dead and buried due to covid complications still shilling for the vaccine saying that their tragedy should not deter you from getting the safe and effective jab.
And also don't fall for the propaganda campaign. Look at it critically. For a while, until they moved on the Ukraine war, the propagandists were churning out "repentance videos" where supposedly dying covid patients repented of not getting the vaxx and urged everyone not to repeat their mistake. Yet they were strangely well groomed and able to speak quite clearly despite supposedly drowning in their own phlegm. I have been in hospital and trust me my first thought is not to go on facebook. Nor would a cameraman be allowed into a covid ward to film this shit. It's mostly bullshit.
If you ever get a chance read a book called Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds. It's available for free on Gutenberg.org. It's an old book, written in the 1800s, but it documents all of the mass psychoses that have afflicted society from religious manias, medical manias and superstitions to financial bubbles like the tulip craze. It's old but when you see the pattern you cannot mistake what happened to us as a society. Because as someone once said, history does not repeat but it rhymes.
I thought you said "I am not going to endlessly debate you" a while ago.
You've made your opinions clear but your support for them has been feeble so far. Of the few links you have provided:
One does not say what you claim it does (the Epoch Times piece that misrepresents the findings of a journal article. Remember? Of the nine people who died of myocarditis or pericarditis eight were from the unvaccinated control group),
Another is a pre-print that has yet to be peer reviewed.
Another is supposed to show a particular vaccine isn't safe but when you follow its links the vaccine is still recommended over nothing at all.
Another deals with one patient who had a liver reaction to a vaccine but hastens to say "To our knowledge, no severe case with liver failure requiring liver transplantation was reported."
If you do in fact choose to endlessly debate please give us more than opinions.