I think you're looking through the wrong end of the telescope. You seem to be arguing that we'd be better off without these treatments. You use HIV as an example despite the fact that these treatments have made HIV far less deadly than it was initially, and that's true of all the major viruses that used to affect us. Who even gets polio anymore?
I think I understand why you're including antibiotic treatment for bacteria in your list of examples but it's worth pointing out that viruses like covid don't respond to antibiotics, and that viruses mutate quite a bit faster than bacteria.
As far as I can tell variants are found only in unvaccinated people. I'm willing to change my mind if you can show me where this is not the case and how prevalent it is.
Finally, you make the claim that "variants first appeared in places that first introduced vaccines" and I'm going to have to ask for something more than your word. I spent some time on the Internet looking at where various variants were discovered and when the first vaccinations occurred and in every single case the variant came first, before anyone had been vaccinated. Sorry for the awkward formatting - I can't seem to get the columns any straighter.
Since you appear genuine in your reply, I will take the time to reply, in depth. It is time consuming to replicate the method I watched on a YouTube video, long since deleted.
First, Below is a response related to your Polio reference.
Below is the JUST the Pfizer Trial Data.
The study began in April 29, 2020.
Primary Completion Date Nov 2, 2021
(3 Doses were administered with 6 months in between doses 2&3)
In the Green Section,
Please Select "Contacts and Locations"
Please Select "Show 162 study locations"
Will show you Vaccination was introduced in a select Group of the Public far before the dates you believed and several breakout locations of Variants are corespondent.
Additional breakout locations can be isolated by Mapping Moderna, AstraZeneca etc. with THEIR Trial Data.
Both "Study Details" and "Tabular" views near the Top of the page, will provide significant information on reactions.
Read this carefully and begin to Map your own conclusions. You will not be happy with what you find.
I will add more after you have time to absorb this first, IF you are interested.
"in 1996 .... wild poliovirus paralyzed an estimated 75,000 children on the continent each year. Now the continent has not reported a case of wild polio since August 2016, and the Independent Africa Regional Certification Commission says the World Health Organization's Africa region is free of wild polio."
The vaccination campaign "has prevented an estimated 1.8 million cases of paralysis in children and saved about 180,000 lives"
The article you cite doesn't provide a total but it indicates very few infections from the new virus. Are you concerned there won't be an improved vaccine for the new one?
YOUR claim that Vaccines were introduced AFTER the variants appeared, was proven false. The data clearly does show the US, a country that experienced one of the most massive outbreaks, despite doing nothing differently than other countries, had public trials across the US, during these high numbers.
Vaccines can be beneficial if used in the most vulnerable and not throughout the entire population.
I am not anti-vax.
I am anti-corporate healthcare designed to make money off providing Vaccination to millions of people who are perfectly healthy and not at risk at all.
I am also anti-Guinea pig. The Gates foundation has very serious problems that you appear more than eager to ignore. Pfizer has no better of a record.
and
Your basic math skills appear inhibited.
8 Vaccines introduced.
8 Variants appear.
WHY are you here. Your line of questioning and responses DO not match your presence here.
I'm confused. I haven't responded to your post about vaccine trials yet. I was talking about polio.
I'm still trying to get through the link you sent about vaccine trials. There's a lot of information and I haven't had enough free time to digest it yet.
So, concerning polio: Without the vaccine in Africa there would have been over a million infected / crippled kids and deaths in the 6 figures. It's true a small number of children have now been infected but is that a bad thing when the new strain will presumably be dealt with as well?
According to the link you supplied for a particular US Pfizer / BioNTech vaccine trial the study proposal was published on April 29, 2020, and the "History of Changes" section shows participants were being recruited until July 2020, and that's when the trial went from "Recruiting" to "Active".
So the variant was in the field 2 months before the trial participants received their first shots.
The Gates Foundation
Let's stick to the topic at hand: the lack so far of evidence of a causal relationship between the variants and the vaccines. We can talk about the Gates Foundation in another thread.
8 Vaccines introduced / 8 Variants appear.
The only evidence you've provided to back that statement up is for one variant, the Epsilon, and it appears to be incorrect.
WHY are you here.
To see if claims that the MSM is lying to me are supportable. It's OK to have a wide variety of opinions on a subject because it makes for a healthy discussion, but at some point facts have to be produced. Otherwise - as somebody said - "That which is stated without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
There's a lot of reading in the proposed Pfizer study but I haven't seen any results yet. It appears they won't be available until November, so I'm not sure what to make of it so far.
I think you're looking through the wrong end of the telescope. You seem to be arguing that we'd be better off without these treatments. You use HIV as an example despite the fact that these treatments have made HIV far less deadly than it was initially, and that's true of all the major viruses that used to affect us. Who even gets polio anymore?
I think I understand why you're including antibiotic treatment for bacteria in your list of examples but it's worth pointing out that viruses like covid don't respond to antibiotics, and that viruses mutate quite a bit faster than bacteria.
As far as I can tell variants are found only in unvaccinated people. I'm willing to change my mind if you can show me where this is not the case and how prevalent it is.
Finally, you make the claim that "variants first appeared in places that first introduced vaccines" and I'm going to have to ask for something more than your word. I spent some time on the Internet looking at where various variants were discovered and when the first vaccinations occurred and in every single case the variant came first, before anyone had been vaccinated. Sorry for the awkward formatting - I can't seem to get the columns any straighter.
Variant Discovered Location 1st vaccine
Zeta 2020 April Brazil 2021 January
Epsilon 2020 July California 2020 December
Alpha 2020 Oct. UK 2020 December
Delta 2020 Oct. India 2021 January
Eta 2020 Dec. UK, Nigeria 2021 March
Beta 2020 Dec. S.Africa 2021 February
Gamma 2021 Jan. Japan 2021 February
Theta 2021 Feb. Philippines 2021 March
Since you appear genuine in your reply, I will take the time to reply, in depth. It is time consuming to replicate the method I watched on a YouTube video, long since deleted.
First, Below is a response related to your Polio reference.
? This
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/nov/28/polio-outbreaks-in-four-african-countries-caused-by-mutation-of-strain-in-vaccine
Below is the JUST the Pfizer Trial Data. The study began in April 29, 2020. Primary Completion Date Nov 2, 2021 (3 Doses were administered with 6 months in between doses 2&3)
? This
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/study/NCT04368728#contacts
In the Green Section, Please Select "Contacts and Locations" Please Select "Show 162 study locations"
Will show you Vaccination was introduced in a select Group of the Public far before the dates you believed and several breakout locations of Variants are corespondent.
Additional breakout locations can be isolated by Mapping Moderna, AstraZeneca etc. with THEIR Trial Data.
Both "Study Details" and "Tabular" views near the Top of the page, will provide significant information on reactions.
Read this carefully and begin to Map your own conclusions. You will not be happy with what you find.
I will add more after you have time to absorb this first, IF you are interested.
Polio first.
"in 1996 .... wild poliovirus paralyzed an estimated 75,000 children on the continent each year. Now the continent has not reported a case of wild polio since August 2016, and the Independent Africa Regional Certification Commission says the World Health Organization's Africa region is free of wild polio."
The vaccination campaign "has prevented an estimated 1.8 million cases of paralysis in children and saved about 180,000 lives"
The article you cite doesn't provide a total but it indicates very few infections from the new virus. Are you concerned there won't be an improved vaccine for the new one?
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/08/25/905884740/africa-declares-wild-polio-is-wiped-out-yet-it-persists-in-vaccine-derived-cases
Now your NOT sounding very genuine.
YOUR claim that Vaccines were introduced AFTER the variants appeared, was proven false. The data clearly does show the US, a country that experienced one of the most massive outbreaks, despite doing nothing differently than other countries, had public trials across the US, during these high numbers.
Vaccines can be beneficial if used in the most vulnerable and not throughout the entire population.
I am not anti-vax.
I am anti-corporate healthcare designed to make money off providing Vaccination to millions of people who are perfectly healthy and not at risk at all.
I am also anti-Guinea pig. The Gates foundation has very serious problems that you appear more than eager to ignore. Pfizer has no better of a record.
and
Your basic math skills appear inhibited.
8 Vaccines introduced.
8 Variants appear.
WHY are you here. Your line of questioning and responses DO not match your presence here.
I'm confused. I haven't responded to your post about vaccine trials yet. I was talking about polio.
I'm still trying to get through the link you sent about vaccine trials. There's a lot of information and I haven't had enough free time to digest it yet.
So, concerning polio: Without the vaccine in Africa there would have been over a million infected / crippled kids and deaths in the 6 figures. It's true a small number of children have now been infected but is that a bad thing when the new strain will presumably be dealt with as well?
Vaccines and variants...
Well, no. The list of variants we're discussing only had one entry from the US: the Epsilon variant. It appeared in May 2020. (https://gvn.org/covid-19/epsilon-b-1-427-b-1-429/, https://newsroom.uw.edu/news/epsilon-variant-mutations-contribute-covid-immune-evasion).
According to the link you supplied for a particular US Pfizer / BioNTech vaccine trial the study proposal was published on April 29, 2020, and the "History of Changes" section shows participants were being recruited until July 2020, and that's when the trial went from "Recruiting" to "Active".
So the variant was in the field 2 months before the trial participants received their first shots.
Let's stick to the topic at hand: the lack so far of evidence of a causal relationship between the variants and the vaccines. We can talk about the Gates Foundation in another thread.
The only evidence you've provided to back that statement up is for one variant, the Epsilon, and it appears to be incorrect.
To see if claims that the MSM is lying to me are supportable. It's OK to have a wide variety of opinions on a subject because it makes for a healthy discussion, but at some point facts have to be produced. Otherwise - as somebody said - "That which is stated without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
There's a lot of reading in the proposed Pfizer study but I haven't seen any results yet. It appears they won't be available until November, so I'm not sure what to make of it so far.