Nice wait until you see how many of us there are next election.
Imagine what the CPC could have done if they had anything PPC voters wanted as part of their platform.
PPC voters I think are pretty much done with voting for the lesser of two evils. If you want our votes you are goddamn well going to give us something for them.
That's as simple as I can make it.
Either the CPC learns this and maybe nips the PPC in the bud by giving their voters something to get excited about, or the next election its going to get very interesting.
that is the main thing that ass fucked them but they are liberals in a different flavor they would end up bending the knee right after and changing their mind.
Over the coming elections the PPC need to make "Never Strategically Vote Vow" in which the entire goal is to sink the CPC. It needs to be a war of vote attrition to starve out the Conservative Party voters. Do the CPC voters who also happen to mostly agree with the general PPC principles anyway... keep throwing their vote away? Or do the CPC voters start voting PPC instead?
More and more people will read up on the parties actual principles and values. They will see more and more that the vast majority are not the smears and bullshit.
They will see that the PPC will never relent. The CPC need to get to a point when they are asking to merge with the PPC and understand that the PPC is the boss and the new party. "The Peoples Conservative Party"
I voted Liberal my entire life until 2019. Then I went straight to PPC and then again this week. I like the classical liberal values. I like that multiculturalism would be removed. We are a multiracial country that should be united around Canada's enlightenment values and liberalism (old school liberalism that Bernier stands for. Not the liberal=left thing that happened in North America) based culture.
I've already taken this vow myself and will keep at it.
You could also add the Yukon, where O'Toole thought it was a great idea to throw out the candidate a month before election, because he was against vaccine mandates.
LOL you just pulled that figure straight out of your ass.
Yeah I'm so sure Green, Liberal and NDP voters just spontaneously went full national socialist in this election. They skipped right over the Conservatives on their way there, too.
I'm sorry but that's not how it works. The far right party draws from the near righty party, not the left wing parties.
I voted for all parties in my life - and PPC the last two elections. Mad Max won me over last time when he called everyone else "Globalists" during the debate. I can't imagine how well we would have done if normies had been exposed to him during this year's debate.
PPC will just keep getting more votes as they are the modern conservative party, I have no idea what the fuck Conliberals are here in canada but they are like a bunch of Mitt Romneys children.
You can't ignore that many people now. It is not likely to ever win government, but any government who do needs to win now needs to acknowledge they exist, and do what they can to earn their trust.
If we're back at the polls in two years they'll probably creep up another 2%, and get more and more annoying until the CPC finally does something to acknowledge the schism in their party.
It may take decades as well - but as long as PPC voters are consistent and serious about what they want - they may well get it!
but any government who do needs to win now needs to acknowledge they exist, and do what they can to earn their trust.
No, they're only relevant to the Conservatives (because those radical, far right-wing votes aren't available to the Liberals), and appeasing the 5% radical extreme-right fringe that makes up those PPC voters would kill the CPC with moderate swing voters who make up way more than 5%.
You're basically demanding the CPC commit electoral suicide otherwise you'll take your vote to the PPC and ensure the CPC loses. It's a no-win situation for the Conservatives in a vote-split scenario.
History has already proven Conservatives can never win elections when there's another right-wing party out there splitting the vote. See the whole Reform party saga. All the Reform party accomplished was to ensure the Liberals ruled for 13 years straight.
In a country that's 60-70% left-wing, Conservatives only get to govern because the left-wing vote is split. Split the right-wing vote too, and you get perpetual Liberal rule.
I think we can safely say that "acknowledging that they exist" and "committing electoral suicide" has some play-between, no?
Assuming you are correct and 100% of the PPC voters are just disenfranchised CPC (I know the number isnt 100, but I won't argue that here) the CPC has been given a warning that there's a leak on the ship. Maybe they won't sacrifice the hull to fix it, but it might start with a simple nod, or something inoffensive to the general public that can be done to appease the PPC.
For example, the CPC could take an anti-cartel stance, they wouldn't lose much of their current standings, but they'd have to really look if the PQ vote lost would make up for it or not. They could take a strong anti-mandate stance for health services like vaccines, masks and etc - and they'd have to really look at how much of their current base would boot them for doing so.
While the Reform party is the direction it's headed, the CPC agrees with you that as long as the right isn't split they can win - which means they know the PPC is something they should be tackling now before it becomes another Reform. While Reform became so powerful that it ended in securing 10 years of CPC rule when it merged, they have an interesting choice to make because the next election is going to be sooner rather than later, and if the PPC can pick up that many voters in that short a time, they surely have demonstrated their ability to galvanize and take advantage of weakness in conservative politics.
The CPC has tried courting the liberal voters by just giving them what Trudeau would have anyways - but that strategy failed three times in a row. It might just be that they need to learn the lesson the Alberta UPC did and work hard to unify conservatives while the lefties break off into more dumb little offshoots - a strong NDP means a strong CPC - Jack Layton overseeing the Harper years is a testament to this. An important part of learning that lesson might be seriously looking at the PPC.
Maybe it is as you say, and the PPC will die in obscurity worshipping Bernier for 20 years getting 2% of the vote, becoming a second fringe-fringe party; you certainly wouldn't see the big left-shill media actually waking up and making hate articles about it though. Normally, tiny fringe wastes of time like the PPC weren't even worthy of cbc's time, but now you see them standing up and shrieking "racist". To me, that's a sign that, for weal or woe, the PPC's rise is relevant, and the CPC needs to do something about it.
I really do not understand how PPC voters are assumed to have CPC as second choice. PPC is about a set of principals, right or wrong; I voted PPC, but was always NDP. I think the political scale is more than one dimensional.
This. For a while, I was in support of the CPC until O'Toole took the dive and flip-flopped to allow 20% of the CPC vote to go to the PPC. The PPC is already set up to split the conservative vote, which I didn't realize until I saw the poll numbers, and said, "hmmmm". I knew Trudeau would win, because the whole election was a sham to waste taxpayer money and let Trudeau win. Even, if say, the CPC did win, it only matters who counts the votes, they would have just committed election fraud, and let Trudeau win anyways. People are sick of Trudeau, there is no way he won legitimately, and I often wonder if he cheated his last term. The neck and neck poll numbers was designed to give Trudeau some air of legitmacy. Either way, this proves elections are a waste of time and money. Trudeau was guaranteed to win. O'Toole threw the election on purpose.
If what you say is true, then their strategy was flawless and they picked up more swing voters than they lost to the PPC. And why would they want those fringe, racist, extremists to vote for their party anyhow? They are the scum of the earth!
Blaming the reform party didn't solve anything either, but the fact remained that conservatives would never when an election as long as there were two conservative parties.
Maybe the conservatives need to embrace modern day politics instead of pretending it’s 2011. People are pissed and the failure to acknowledge the problems is the conservative party’s fault. Not the PPC.
I went the other way, held my nose and voted CPC and still got fucked. So the problem isn't the millions that voted for Trudeau, it's the tens of thousands that voted PPC? Yup, lots of logic there. Is the hate on of the PPC going to be the new Canadian Trump derangement syndrome? The CPC flip-flopping on a number of issues is responsible for people voting PPC. This bullshit about "the PPC took our vote" shows how entitled these fuckers are. It's not your vote CPC, it's the citizen's vote, and you failed to deserve it.
Serious suggestion: with some of the votes going to the PPC, there’s obvious dismay at the tories being blue grits. For me, irritation with o toole amd the top brass not making Alberta O&G being the key to getting out country back on its financial feet.
Instead, O Toole mouthed stuff hardly anyone sensible cares about, global “warming”, a non existent gun problem, waffle about poor women out of work and the taxpayer being on the hook for daycare, AKA the taxpayer instead of the actual parents being the parents…
I digress, with he AB UPC leadership revealing his true globalist face, crazy idea….. how about bernier concentrating purely on Alberta & SK and either running all PPC in Alberta as a provincial party or (even crazier idea) merging with maverick?
Get AB SK 100% purple, provincially tell Justine Trudeau to go fuck himself, cut Quebec’s oil off, cut BC’s oil off if they both keep fucking us over on he pipelines, and just deal with the friendly border states that want to buy our oil?
Then a reserve threat could be WEXIT.
Quite unlikely but at this rate I’m at a loss of how to properly harness this anger at the Tories abandoning seemingly all sensible policies. Thoughts?
As much as ham can be annoying…. The numbers don’t lie. That’s painful to read. 25 seats. Jesus H Christ.
As much as I dislike the current shape of the Tory top brass I still voted tory in my riding as the last go around the Dippers were narrowly edged out… at the same time i’m assuming there has to be some long term Strategy from Bernier and his crew. Perhaps to keep increasing vote share until critical mass? Because at this rate it will be several election before that happens and we haven’t got that long the country descends to maximum warp 10 full retard.
I like Bernier. But at this point maybe okay, he’s made his point, he was able to interdict a slim tory win. I’m sure the Tory poobahs know full well.
Does Bernier have enough clout know to approach his old party and basically say “let me back in from the cold, let’s fix this country. Or, you can shut me out and get the same result next election.”
Since now they'll probably be gone by the next election, I really don't see myself voting that way again.
The PPC also has some serious house cleaning to do before I consider ever voting for them again. If I'm going to take it serioulsy as a party again and not just as Bernie's personal vanity project they need to do a way better job vetting candidates and purging the white supremacists from positions of authority in the party.
If I'm going to take it seriously as a party again and not just as Bernie's personal vanity project
Do you know why the PPC still doesn't have a constitution?
Because a constitution would have to include protocols for party leader succession, i.e. leadership elections or whatever. And a PPC constitution can't include a succession plan, because Bernier never plans to step down.
That's why he refuses to lay down a party constitution. To do so without a real succession plan would be to definitively announce to the world that he's the self-appointed leader for life, meaning the whole PPC thing was just a personal vanity project and a scam all along. And when that happens, people stop sending him cheques.
Like this is so obviously a scam. The people who fall for this PPC thing are the same people who fall for telemarketing scams and join cults. There's so many fucking red flags here. But people just ignore them because the con-man made all the noises they wanted to hear and sold them on his pitch and now they're hooked.
I don't disagree with any of that. I liked the whole PPC thing when it first started but it eventually became obvious this was more cult than political party.
One the government seizes my firearms, there's not much difference left between the LPC and the CPC, so I don't even see the point of voting.
Nice wait until you see how many of us there are next election.
Imagine what the CPC could have done if they had anything PPC voters wanted as part of their platform.
PPC voters I think are pretty much done with voting for the lesser of two evils. If you want our votes you are goddamn well going to give us something for them.
That's as simple as I can make it.
Either the CPC learns this and maybe nips the PPC in the bud by giving their voters something to get excited about, or the next election its going to get very interesting.
The CPC had this election in the bag until they flip flopped on the vax passport and gun confiscation. O'Toole cost them the election, not the PPC.
Exactly.
that is the main thing that ass fucked them but they are liberals in a different flavor they would end up bending the knee right after and changing their mind.
THIS! 10000x %
My riding is on this list, and I'm proud I voted PPC. I will not be jabbed, nor told by any government I have to.
If what's happening to our country doesn't frighten people, then it doesn't matter if the PPC "stole votes" from the CPC...
I'm done with this lesser of two evils. Have some backbone and stand up for your morals.
Over the coming elections the PPC need to make "Never Strategically Vote Vow" in which the entire goal is to sink the CPC. It needs to be a war of vote attrition to starve out the Conservative Party voters. Do the CPC voters who also happen to mostly agree with the general PPC principles anyway... keep throwing their vote away? Or do the CPC voters start voting PPC instead?
More and more people will read up on the parties actual principles and values. They will see more and more that the vast majority are not the smears and bullshit.
They will see that the PPC will never relent. The CPC need to get to a point when they are asking to merge with the PPC and understand that the PPC is the boss and the new party. "The Peoples Conservative Party"
I voted Liberal my entire life until 2019. Then I went straight to PPC and then again this week. I like the classical liberal values. I like that multiculturalism would be removed. We are a multiracial country that should be united around Canada's enlightenment values and liberalism (old school liberalism that Bernier stands for. Not the liberal=left thing that happened in North America) based culture.
I've already taken this vow myself and will keep at it.
Yeah now they want the greater of three evils
You voted for the greater of two evils and got it. You're just too stupid to realize it.
You could also add the Yukon, where O'Toole thought it was a great idea to throw out the candidate a month before election, because he was against vaccine mandates.
LOL you just pulled that figure straight out of your ass.
Yeah I'm so sure Green, Liberal and NDP voters just spontaneously went full national socialist in this election. They skipped right over the Conservatives on their way there, too.
I'm sorry but that's not how it works. The far right party draws from the near righty party, not the left wing parties.
I was an NDP voter as well for a few elections. Woke up, voted CPC, got out of bed, voted PPC.
Amen brother.
I voted for all parties in my life - and PPC the last two elections. Mad Max won me over last time when he called everyone else "Globalists" during the debate. I can't imagine how well we would have done if normies had been exposed to him during this year's debate.
PPC will just keep getting more votes as they are the modern conservative party, I have no idea what the fuck Conliberals are here in canada but they are like a bunch of Mitt Romneys children.
You can't ignore that many people now. It is not likely to ever win government, but any government who do needs to win now needs to acknowledge they exist, and do what they can to earn their trust.
If we're back at the polls in two years they'll probably creep up another 2%, and get more and more annoying until the CPC finally does something to acknowledge the schism in their party.
It may take decades as well - but as long as PPC voters are consistent and serious about what they want - they may well get it!
No, they're only relevant to the Conservatives (because those radical, far right-wing votes aren't available to the Liberals), and appeasing the 5% radical extreme-right fringe that makes up those PPC voters would kill the CPC with moderate swing voters who make up way more than 5%.
You're basically demanding the CPC commit electoral suicide otherwise you'll take your vote to the PPC and ensure the CPC loses. It's a no-win situation for the Conservatives in a vote-split scenario.
History has already proven Conservatives can never win elections when there's another right-wing party out there splitting the vote. See the whole Reform party saga. All the Reform party accomplished was to ensure the Liberals ruled for 13 years straight.
In a country that's 60-70% left-wing, Conservatives only get to govern because the left-wing vote is split. Split the right-wing vote too, and you get perpetual Liberal rule.
I think we can safely say that "acknowledging that they exist" and "committing electoral suicide" has some play-between, no?
Assuming you are correct and 100% of the PPC voters are just disenfranchised CPC (I know the number isnt 100, but I won't argue that here) the CPC has been given a warning that there's a leak on the ship. Maybe they won't sacrifice the hull to fix it, but it might start with a simple nod, or something inoffensive to the general public that can be done to appease the PPC.
For example, the CPC could take an anti-cartel stance, they wouldn't lose much of their current standings, but they'd have to really look if the PQ vote lost would make up for it or not. They could take a strong anti-mandate stance for health services like vaccines, masks and etc - and they'd have to really look at how much of their current base would boot them for doing so.
While the Reform party is the direction it's headed, the CPC agrees with you that as long as the right isn't split they can win - which means they know the PPC is something they should be tackling now before it becomes another Reform. While Reform became so powerful that it ended in securing 10 years of CPC rule when it merged, they have an interesting choice to make because the next election is going to be sooner rather than later, and if the PPC can pick up that many voters in that short a time, they surely have demonstrated their ability to galvanize and take advantage of weakness in conservative politics.
The CPC has tried courting the liberal voters by just giving them what Trudeau would have anyways - but that strategy failed three times in a row. It might just be that they need to learn the lesson the Alberta UPC did and work hard to unify conservatives while the lefties break off into more dumb little offshoots - a strong NDP means a strong CPC - Jack Layton overseeing the Harper years is a testament to this. An important part of learning that lesson might be seriously looking at the PPC.
Maybe it is as you say, and the PPC will die in obscurity worshipping Bernier for 20 years getting 2% of the vote, becoming a second fringe-fringe party; you certainly wouldn't see the big left-shill media actually waking up and making hate articles about it though. Normally, tiny fringe wastes of time like the PPC weren't even worthy of cbc's time, but now you see them standing up and shrieking "racist". To me, that's a sign that, for weal or woe, the PPC's rise is relevant, and the CPC needs to do something about it.
Ham only sees the extremes. There is no reasoning with him on this point.
I really do not understand how PPC voters are assumed to have CPC as second choice. PPC is about a set of principals, right or wrong; I voted PPC, but was always NDP. I think the political scale is more than one dimensional.
You can't even spell principles.
This. For a while, I was in support of the CPC until O'Toole took the dive and flip-flopped to allow 20% of the CPC vote to go to the PPC. The PPC is already set up to split the conservative vote, which I didn't realize until I saw the poll numbers, and said, "hmmmm". I knew Trudeau would win, because the whole election was a sham to waste taxpayer money and let Trudeau win. Even, if say, the CPC did win, it only matters who counts the votes, they would have just committed election fraud, and let Trudeau win anyways. People are sick of Trudeau, there is no way he won legitimately, and I often wonder if he cheated his last term. The neck and neck poll numbers was designed to give Trudeau some air of legitmacy. Either way, this proves elections are a waste of time and money. Trudeau was guaranteed to win. O'Toole threw the election on purpose.
If what you say is true, then their strategy was flawless and they picked up more swing voters than they lost to the PPC. And why would they want those fringe, racist, extremists to vote for their party anyhow? They are the scum of the earth!
Listening to the radio a lot people said they didn't vote conservative because they weren't conservative.
The first step to fixing problems is to blame yourself, blaming the PPC isn't going to solve anything.
Blaming the reform party didn't solve anything either, but the fact remained that conservatives would never when an election as long as there were two conservative parties.
He won the popular vote, which means he knew better than any other leader "what Canadians want", especially zero-seat Bernier.
Maybe the conservatives need to embrace modern day politics instead of pretending it’s 2011. People are pissed and the failure to acknowledge the problems is the conservative party’s fault. Not the PPC.
I went the other way, held my nose and voted CPC and still got fucked. So the problem isn't the millions that voted for Trudeau, it's the tens of thousands that voted PPC? Yup, lots of logic there. Is the hate on of the PPC going to be the new Canadian Trump derangement syndrome? The CPC flip-flopping on a number of issues is responsible for people voting PPC. This bullshit about "the PPC took our vote" shows how entitled these fuckers are. It's not your vote CPC, it's the citizen's vote, and you failed to deserve it.
Why would the CPC want to compromise with a party that can't even win a single seat? That would make matters worse, not better.
because you felt it necessary to make an entire post about how the ppc cost the cons the election?
Serious suggestion: with some of the votes going to the PPC, there’s obvious dismay at the tories being blue grits. For me, irritation with o toole amd the top brass not making Alberta O&G being the key to getting out country back on its financial feet.
Instead, O Toole mouthed stuff hardly anyone sensible cares about, global “warming”, a non existent gun problem, waffle about poor women out of work and the taxpayer being on the hook for daycare, AKA the taxpayer instead of the actual parents being the parents…
I digress, with he AB UPC leadership revealing his true globalist face, crazy idea….. how about bernier concentrating purely on Alberta & SK and either running all PPC in Alberta as a provincial party or (even crazier idea) merging with maverick?
Get AB SK 100% purple, provincially tell Justine Trudeau to go fuck himself, cut Quebec’s oil off, cut BC’s oil off if they both keep fucking us over on he pipelines, and just deal with the friendly border states that want to buy our oil?
Then a reserve threat could be WEXIT.
Quite unlikely but at this rate I’m at a loss of how to properly harness this anger at the Tories abandoning seemingly all sensible policies. Thoughts?
As much as ham can be annoying…. The numbers don’t lie. That’s painful to read. 25 seats. Jesus H Christ.
As much as I dislike the current shape of the Tory top brass I still voted tory in my riding as the last go around the Dippers were narrowly edged out… at the same time i’m assuming there has to be some long term Strategy from Bernier and his crew. Perhaps to keep increasing vote share until critical mass? Because at this rate it will be several election before that happens and we haven’t got that long the country descends to maximum warp 10 full retard.
I like Bernier. But at this point maybe okay, he’s made his point, he was able to interdict a slim tory win. I’m sure the Tory poobahs know full well.
Does Bernier have enough clout know to approach his old party and basically say “let me back in from the cold, let’s fix this country. Or, you can shut me out and get the same result next election.”
The whole thing is broken.
Who will blink first?
I voted CPC to save my guns.
Since now they'll probably be gone by the next election, I really don't see myself voting that way again.
The PPC also has some serious house cleaning to do before I consider ever voting for them again. If I'm going to take it serioulsy as a party again and not just as Bernie's personal vanity project they need to do a way better job vetting candidates and purging the white supremacists from positions of authority in the party.
Do you know why the PPC still doesn't have a constitution?
Because a constitution would have to include protocols for party leader succession, i.e. leadership elections or whatever. And a PPC constitution can't include a succession plan, because Bernier never plans to step down.
That's why he refuses to lay down a party constitution. To do so without a real succession plan would be to definitively announce to the world that he's the self-appointed leader for life, meaning the whole PPC thing was just a personal vanity project and a scam all along. And when that happens, people stop sending him cheques.
Like this is so obviously a scam. The people who fall for this PPC thing are the same people who fall for telemarketing scams and join cults. There's so many fucking red flags here. But people just ignore them because the con-man made all the noises they wanted to hear and sold them on his pitch and now they're hooked.
I don't disagree with any of that. I liked the whole PPC thing when it first started but it eventually became obvious this was more cult than political party.
One the government seizes my firearms, there's not much difference left between the LPC and the CPC, so I don't even see the point of voting.
...earn those votes, by pandering to a fringe who's ideas can't even win them a single seat?
https://i.imgur.com/Sp5P8Ql.png