These kinds of statistics are self serving and skewed.
Notice that there is no category for people with one vaxx shot. They are included in the unvaxxed category. Yet studies indicate that if you have one shot and get covid you are actually at greater risk of complications. So they are inflating the numbers of complications for being unvaxxed by including those people who have been put at greater risk by getting one vaxx. Whereas if they has actually been completely unvaxxed they might have been fine.
Secondly unvaxxed includes people with 2 doses if they contract covid within 14 days of the last vaccination. Again, it is fudging the numbers. Were they put at greater risk because of the vaxx? There should be a separate category for people with 1 jab or 2 but who got covid within 14 days.
Finally, these statistics are meaningless if they do not consider over all mortality and hospitalizations. As a thought experiment, let's say that inhaling asbestos saved your from dying of covid - but you ended up dead from asbestos. These statistics ignore the complications of the vaxx and given the fact that in all jurisdictions excess mortality not due to covid is up, and given the fact that we are now dealing with Sudden Adult Death Syndrome you need to consider that even if the vaccinated experience fewer serious complications from covid they may, and in fact likely are, experiencing other problems which are completely ignored in this chart.
no category for people with one vaxx shot. They are included in the unvaxxed category.
So you want to count a jab that is too old to be effective as still good somehow? That doesn't make sense.
Yet studies indicate
What studies?
within 14 days of the last vaccination
Another case where you apparently want something to happen that doesn't. It takes time for your body to react to the vaccine. Fourteen days, apparently.
the complications of the vaxx
What complications? And more importantly: what is their overall effect compared to the damage caused by the virus?
excess mortality not due to covid is up
Fixed that for you. You seem to be assuming - and not providing any proof - that every covid death is counted. You may even be hinting that any excess deaths are caused by the vaccines. If so you'll need proof.
You are setting up straw men arguments, much like the chart you posted.
I am saying that 1 vaxx shot actually increases the risk of hospitalizations. By including one vaxx in the unvaccinated category you are polluting the data and making it meaningless. I am having trouble finding the study I refer to but in any event that the fact that the two subsets are not differentiated makes the "unvaccinated" catch all meaningless. No proper medical study would confound what are two different categories of patients. Find me a chart that breaks it down between zero doses and 1 dose and I think you will see a sharp difference.
So you want to count a jab that is too old to be effective as still good somehow? That doesn't make sense.
By your logic we should include anyone whose last vaccination is over 6 months old in the unvaxxed category since its effects wear off and even the government is now saying there is no such thing as fully vaxxed, just up-to-date, which will soon enough be 4 and more vaxxes.
What complications? And more importantly: what is their overall effect compared to the damage caused by the virus?
The excess risk of serious adverse events of special interest surpassed the risk reduction for COVID-19 hospitalization relative to the placebo group in both Pfizer and Moderna trials (2.3 and 6.4 per 10,000 participants, respectively).:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4125239
Yes SADS has been around, but it is becoming much more noticeable now. This is only beginning. Like smoking,asbestos and radiation not all lethal substances cause death immediately.
Even Pfizer for its Crominarty vaccine (the only fda approved version of their covid vaccine) discloses that they do not know if the vaccine causes cancer or aggravates existing cancers. In the absence of proof of safety why take this shit when your risk of death is about .02 percent.
I have had covid. I am not that young. It was a miserable 2 weeks but no serious damage. Take some vitamin d, c and zinc and you will be fine.
The Epoch Times is definitely supermarket magazine material. If you read the study it claims to be referencing you will see that of the 20+ million cases they looked at they found a little over 3200 cases of myocarditis and/or pericarditis. The vast majority were treated and recovered without incident. Nine people did die of one or the other, but 8 of them were from the unvaccinated control group. "After a follow-up of 30 days after discharge, 4 (0.24%) deaths among cases of myocarditis (none among exposed to vaccine) and 5 (0.31%) deaths among cases of pericarditis (including one patient having received a vaccine 8 to 21 days prior to the diagnosis) were reported." https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-31401-5#Tab2
The excess risk of serious adverse events
Let's see what the peer review results are.
More and more it turns out that the vaxxes arent that safe
And yet your own link says that vaccine is acceptable if no other is available.
And don't think that Pfizer or Moderna are better. There are huge problems
Again, no proof.
but cumulatively there are a lot of possible problems
I am not going to endlessly debate you. But your whole point about people who have died is another fallacy. Very few people have actually died of covid. Most people died with covid. Covid is a very low fatality illness.
The notorious examples of people getting hit by cars or shot to death being listed as covid deaths exemplify the problem in how these things are classified. In most cases the person who died with covid was dying of something else anyway including cancer or other chronic illnesses such as obesity or being very old. The average age for covid deaths is 84, past the average life expectancy.
In fact, in my jurisdiction they used to publish the ages of everyone who died. The most common age here was in the 90s and 100s. I never knew we had so many people in their hundreds. But let's be honest, their time was up anyway. Whether covid got them or the flu, they were not going to live long. There is no reason for the sake of extending their lives for a few months to turn society into a medical apartheid state where the unvaxxed are excluded from jobs, travel and public places.
Now I want you to remember this exchange in a few years time when you have cancer or have developed some neurological disease like MS: the vaxx did that to you. Enjoy.
Also: as far as telling it to the healtcare workers, I would like to tell those insufferable twerking nurses on tiktok and twitter to fuck off and go take care of some patients. Nothing says I am sorry you lost your grandma like doing a sexy dance in scrubs. Insufferable narcissists who should not be in the profession.
What percentage of people who get covid do you think actually die from it?
You do realize that the risk of death for someone who does not have a preexisting chronic condition is almost zero, right?
The total case fatality rate is: 1.1 percent (taking into account even the high death toll at the beginning of the disease). This percentage is the average total risk of death for all age groups. But obviously the risk will be higher for the old and the sick with preexisting chronic conditions and lower for the young. So 1,1 percent is a bit scare-mongerish.
https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid
But as the website points out, the actual risk of death if you are infected is much lower because many cases of covid are not counted and some cases that are counted as death should not be. In other words, the case fatality rate is the percentage of people known to have been infected to are considered to have died with covid. But in many cases, people who get covid were not included in the total so their survival was not recorded, leading to a higher case fatality rate. For example, as in my case, people who were diagnosed at home with a rapid antigen test are not included in that statistic. Plus the death toll at the beginning of the pandemic was much higher. 20 percent of people infected were dying in Wuhan in early 2020. But as treatment improved (and I am not talking about vaccines, but rather the fact that doctors realized that intubation was not a good treatment option, for example) the death rate plummetted. Even if you look at the period prior to the vaccines, the death rate was already below 1 percent.
In addition, some deaths should not be included at all but since they are they tend to increase the case fatality rate. If they were properly excluded the death rate would be lower than 1,1 percent. For example, In the UK, they listed anyone who died within 6 months of having had covid as a covid death. This meant that if you literally got hit by a bus months after recovering, you were counted as a covid death. And by the way, why is the same methodology not applied to the vaxxes. Isnt it convenient that they do not count anyone who died within 6 months of getting the vaxx as a vaxx death. Not that I think they should, but you can see the unequal treatment of the two questions.
In contrast to the risk of dying from covid - even using the official but skewed statistics, the risk of dying from tetanus is about 6 percent. The risk of dying from Seasonal flu (US) is 0.1 to 0.2% for the entire population, but of course both covid and flu affect the elderly and the sick much more so individual risk may be higher or lower.
For healthy people both covid and the flu pose a negligible risk. There is no reason to force mass vaccination or impose segregation against the unvaxxed since the covid vaccine does not prevent infection or transmission of covid. Even if we accepted your belief that the vaxx reduces the risk of mortality from covid without increasing the risk of death from other vaxx induced diseases, there is no need because you would be reducing an almost imperceptible risk. If the overall risk of death for the entire population is 1.1 percent, this is not distributed equally among all age groups or other factors. The elderly and people with diabetes may have a risk higher than 1.1 percent but the risk for a healthy 30 year old is almost zero.
There might be a case to be made for vaccinating 90 year olds in care homes because their risk of dying from covid is much higher than the average person and because their remaining life expectancy is so low that any problems from these untested mrna modifications may not even manifest themselves in the remaining time.
What percentage of people who get covid do you think actually die from it?
How many people have had the virus? No one knows, so any percentage is a guess. But over 6 million people have died of it. How many will it take for you to GAF?
I was visiting my sister in the hospital and one of the nurses told me about an unvaxxed guy with covid who spent three weeks in the ICU on a ventilator, and when he recovered he went home and told his friends on Facebook that he "beat the virus without getting vaccinated". It's a personal anecdote and doesn't count, but you remind me of that guy.
As for the people who die of other things but have covid: they are recorded for contact tracing purposes, not as cause of death. From your own link: "The I-Team found eight cases in which a person was counted as a COVID death, but did not have COVID listed as a cause of contributing cause of death."
Do you remember the moral panic when a 10 year old died with covid in the States, conveniently just before they were about to approve the vaxx for kids. Then you saw a picture of him and he was about 200 pounds. Since most parents do no allow their kids to become this fat most kids are not at risk. But instead of instilling some responsibility and common sense in people no one will criticize those parents who let their kids become this obese and instead they ram dangerous and almost untested vaccines to prevent a risk that for most people does not exist.
These kinds of statistics are self serving and skewed.
Notice that there is no category for people with one vaxx shot. They are included in the unvaxxed category. Yet studies indicate that if you have one shot and get covid you are actually at greater risk of complications. So they are inflating the numbers of complications for being unvaxxed by including those people who have been put at greater risk by getting one vaxx. Whereas if they has actually been completely unvaxxed they might have been fine.
Secondly unvaxxed includes people with 2 doses if they contract covid within 14 days of the last vaccination. Again, it is fudging the numbers. Were they put at greater risk because of the vaxx? There should be a separate category for people with 1 jab or 2 but who got covid within 14 days.
Finally, these statistics are meaningless if they do not consider over all mortality and hospitalizations. As a thought experiment, let's say that inhaling asbestos saved your from dying of covid - but you ended up dead from asbestos. These statistics ignore the complications of the vaxx and given the fact that in all jurisdictions excess mortality not due to covid is up, and given the fact that we are now dealing with Sudden Adult Death Syndrome you need to consider that even if the vaccinated experience fewer serious complications from covid they may, and in fact likely are, experiencing other problems which are completely ignored in this chart.
So you want to count a jab that is too old to be effective as still good somehow? That doesn't make sense.
What studies?
Another case where you apparently want something to happen that doesn't. It takes time for your body to react to the vaccine. Fourteen days, apparently.
What complications? And more importantly: what is their overall effect compared to the damage caused by the virus?
Fixed that for you. You seem to be assuming - and not providing any proof - that every covid death is counted. You may even be hinting that any excess deaths are caused by the vaccines. If so you'll need proof.
It's been around for decades, at least. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_arrhythmic_death_syndrome | https://www.sads.org/ | https://www.sads.ca/ ) If you're going to claim it's on the rise due to covid provide some legitimate proof - as in: not supermarket tabloids.
You are setting up straw men arguments, much like the chart you posted.
I am saying that 1 vaxx shot actually increases the risk of hospitalizations. By including one vaxx in the unvaccinated category you are polluting the data and making it meaningless. I am having trouble finding the study I refer to but in any event that the fact that the two subsets are not differentiated makes the "unvaccinated" catch all meaningless. No proper medical study would confound what are two different categories of patients. Find me a chart that breaks it down between zero doses and 1 dose and I think you will see a sharp difference.
By your logic we should include anyone whose last vaccination is over 6 months old in the unvaxxed category since its effects wear off and even the government is now saying there is no such thing as fully vaxxed, just up-to-date, which will soon enough be 4 and more vaxxes.
https://rupreparing.com/news/2022/6/29/moderna-vaccine-increases-myocarditis-risk-by-44-times-in-young-adults-peer-reviewed-study
The excess risk of serious adverse events of special interest surpassed the risk reduction for COVID-19 hospitalization relative to the placebo group in both Pfizer and Moderna trials (2.3 and 6.4 per 10,000 participants, respectively).: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4125239
More and more it turns out that the vaxxes arent that safe. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fda-sharply-limits-use-of-johnson-johnson-shot-due-to-rare-blood-clots/ar-AAWXMNi?cvid=3f49d917f9544722a70771c8c34cae60 Small consolation for the people who took the Jand J shot. And don't think that Pfizer or Moderna are better. There are huge problems with how they ran their initial studies. You'll see.
And then you have more and more studies showing that the vaxx causes dangerous complications. Each of these complications is described as rare, but cumulatively there are a lot of possible problems https://www.journal-of-hepatology.eu/article/S0168-8278(22)00234-3/fulltext
Yes SADS has been around, but it is becoming much more noticeable now. This is only beginning. Like smoking,asbestos and radiation not all lethal substances cause death immediately.
Even Pfizer for its Crominarty vaccine (the only fda approved version of their covid vaccine) discloses that they do not know if the vaccine causes cancer or aggravates existing cancers. In the absence of proof of safety why take this shit when your risk of death is about .02 percent.
I have had covid. I am not that young. It was a miserable 2 weeks but no serious damage. Take some vitamin d, c and zinc and you will be fine.
FYI You’re debating with a car mechanic. Who relies of Politifact and Politico to submit to forced medical procedures.
Don’t sweat it when your common sense goes way over a car mechanics head.
No worries. I am just sick of the vaxx death cult. They managed to take a lot from me with their smug confidently incorrect self righteousness.
I hear y’a
The chart is a count. I'm not distorting anyone's point. https://owl.excelsior.edu/argument-and-critical-thinking/logical-fallacies/logical-fallacies-straw-man/
And providing no proof. Find your own charts.
Tell the chart makers that.
The Epoch Times is definitely supermarket magazine material. If you read the study it claims to be referencing you will see that of the 20+ million cases they looked at they found a little over 3200 cases of myocarditis and/or pericarditis. The vast majority were treated and recovered without incident. Nine people did die of one or the other, but 8 of them were from the unvaccinated control group. "After a follow-up of 30 days after discharge, 4 (0.24%) deaths among cases of myocarditis (none among exposed to vaccine) and 5 (0.31%) deaths among cases of pericarditis (including one patient having received a vaccine 8 to 21 days prior to the diagnosis) were reported." https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-31401-5#Tab2
Let's see what the peer review results are.
And yet your own link says that vaccine is acceptable if no other is available.
Again, no proof.
Over 12 billion shots have been delivered. https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/ Over six million people have died from the virus. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ Where's your proof that the your "possible problems" add up to a greater threat than the virus?
Where's your proof?
Really? Tell that to the people missing the ones who died. And the healthcare workers.
I am not going to endlessly debate you. But your whole point about people who have died is another fallacy. Very few people have actually died of covid. Most people died with covid. Covid is a very low fatality illness.
The notorious examples of people getting hit by cars or shot to death being listed as covid deaths exemplify the problem in how these things are classified. In most cases the person who died with covid was dying of something else anyway including cancer or other chronic illnesses such as obesity or being very old. The average age for covid deaths is 84, past the average life expectancy.
In fact, in my jurisdiction they used to publish the ages of everyone who died. The most common age here was in the 90s and 100s. I never knew we had so many people in their hundreds. But let's be honest, their time was up anyway. Whether covid got them or the flu, they were not going to live long. There is no reason for the sake of extending their lives for a few months to turn society into a medical apartheid state where the unvaxxed are excluded from jobs, travel and public places.
Now I want you to remember this exchange in a few years time when you have cancer or have developed some neurological disease like MS: the vaxx did that to you. Enjoy.
Also: as far as telling it to the healtcare workers, I would like to tell those insufferable twerking nurses on tiktok and twitter to fuck off and go take care of some patients. Nothing says I am sorry you lost your grandma like doing a sexy dance in scrubs. Insufferable narcissists who should not be in the profession.
Your unsupported opinions are noted.
I hope anyone else reading them doesn't automatically assume you know what you're talking about.
What percentage of people who get covid do you think actually die from it?
You do realize that the risk of death for someone who does not have a preexisting chronic condition is almost zero, right?
The total case fatality rate is: 1.1 percent (taking into account even the high death toll at the beginning of the disease). This percentage is the average total risk of death for all age groups. But obviously the risk will be higher for the old and the sick with preexisting chronic conditions and lower for the young. So 1,1 percent is a bit scare-mongerish. https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid
But as the website points out, the actual risk of death if you are infected is much lower because many cases of covid are not counted and some cases that are counted as death should not be. In other words, the case fatality rate is the percentage of people known to have been infected to are considered to have died with covid. But in many cases, people who get covid were not included in the total so their survival was not recorded, leading to a higher case fatality rate. For example, as in my case, people who were diagnosed at home with a rapid antigen test are not included in that statistic. Plus the death toll at the beginning of the pandemic was much higher. 20 percent of people infected were dying in Wuhan in early 2020. But as treatment improved (and I am not talking about vaccines, but rather the fact that doctors realized that intubation was not a good treatment option, for example) the death rate plummetted. Even if you look at the period prior to the vaccines, the death rate was already below 1 percent.
In addition, some deaths should not be included at all but since they are they tend to increase the case fatality rate. If they were properly excluded the death rate would be lower than 1,1 percent. For example, In the UK, they listed anyone who died within 6 months of having had covid as a covid death. This meant that if you literally got hit by a bus months after recovering, you were counted as a covid death. And by the way, why is the same methodology not applied to the vaxxes. Isnt it convenient that they do not count anyone who died within 6 months of getting the vaxx as a vaxx death. Not that I think they should, but you can see the unequal treatment of the two questions.
As sauce for what I am saying: https://denvergazette.com/news/new-zealand-man-who-died-of-gunshot-wound-to-be-recorded-as-covid-19-death/article_f33fe779-8294-5e91-96c6-a5cb00923a5e.html
https://cbs12.com/news/local/i-team-deaths-incorrectly-attributed-to-covid-19-in-palm-beach-county: examples, 90 year old with parkinsons, a man infected with covid who died in a motorcycle accident.
In contrast to the risk of dying from covid - even using the official but skewed statistics, the risk of dying from tetanus is about 6 percent. The risk of dying from Seasonal flu (US) is 0.1 to 0.2% for the entire population, but of course both covid and flu affect the elderly and the sick much more so individual risk may be higher or lower.
For healthy people both covid and the flu pose a negligible risk. There is no reason to force mass vaccination or impose segregation against the unvaxxed since the covid vaccine does not prevent infection or transmission of covid. Even if we accepted your belief that the vaxx reduces the risk of mortality from covid without increasing the risk of death from other vaxx induced diseases, there is no need because you would be reducing an almost imperceptible risk. If the overall risk of death for the entire population is 1.1 percent, this is not distributed equally among all age groups or other factors. The elderly and people with diabetes may have a risk higher than 1.1 percent but the risk for a healthy 30 year old is almost zero.
There might be a case to be made for vaccinating 90 year olds in care homes because their risk of dying from covid is much higher than the average person and because their remaining life expectancy is so low that any problems from these untested mrna modifications may not even manifest themselves in the remaining time.
How many people have had the virus? No one knows, so any percentage is a guess. But over 6 million people have died of it. How many will it take for you to GAF?
I was visiting my sister in the hospital and one of the nurses told me about an unvaxxed guy with covid who spent three weeks in the ICU on a ventilator, and when he recovered he went home and told his friends on Facebook that he "beat the virus without getting vaccinated". It's a personal anecdote and doesn't count, but you remind me of that guy.
As for the people who die of other things but have covid: they are recorded for contact tracing purposes, not as cause of death. From your own link: "The I-Team found eight cases in which a person was counted as a COVID death, but did not have COVID listed as a cause of contributing cause of death."
So, vaccinated or not, less than .08% of people get hospitalized and even less die, based on BC stats. Officially not an issue anymore.
Only people that don’t understand risk should be afraid.
You should alert the experts.
They know.
Okay now do fat people
Do you remember the moral panic when a 10 year old died with covid in the States, conveniently just before they were about to approve the vaxx for kids. Then you saw a picture of him and he was about 200 pounds. Since most parents do no allow their kids to become this fat most kids are not at risk. But instead of instilling some responsibility and common sense in people no one will criticize those parents who let their kids become this obese and instead they ram dangerous and almost untested vaccines to prevent a risk that for most people does not exist.
Glad you aren't disagreeing.
Good glad you agree any new mandates must target ALL groups who "tax the healthcare system".
So when unvaxxed people aren't allowed to fly or work neither will fat people, elderly, smokers, drinkers, etc etc.
As soon as they start crashing the healthcare system.